Cab-Lab issue in IR conversion from wave files?

[Hitoshi Kato]

Hi,

It seems Cab Lab conversion makes wav IR files into something different.

This web site (https://gumroad.com/l/ocxaK) provides 2 IR files from MESI oversized 412 captured with Shure SM57 and R-121.
They provide both wave files and sys files.

In the both attachments:
Cab 1 : I drug and drop wave data
Cab 2 : I convert wave file into sys file in UltraRes format
Cab 3 : I convert wave file into sys file in standard format

As a result seen in IrConversion2.png attachment, Cab 2 and Cab 3 have same align curve but original wave file is completely different.

Why does Cab Lab change wave files into different data?
Also for me, original wave file sounds far better than the converted files' sound.

Can someone please advise on this?

Thanks a lot.

 

[blaggers]

Hi,

It seems Cab Lab conversion makes wav IR files into something different.

This web site (https://gumroad.com/l/ocxaK) provides 2 IR files from MESI oversized 412 captured with Shure SM57 and R-121.
They provide both wave files and sys files.

In the both attachments:
Cab 1 : I drug and drop wave data
Cab 2 : I convert wave file into sys file in UltraRes format
Cab 3 : I convert wave file into sys file in standard format

As a result seen in IrConversion2.png attachment, Cab 2 and Cab 3 have same align curve but original wave file is completely different.

Why does Cab Lab change wave files into different data?
Also for me, original wave file sounds far better than the converted files' sound.

Can someone please advise on this?

Thanks a lot.

Looks like the third curve (the standard format one) hasn’t been trimmed using “Auto Trim”. Is the second curve (the Ultrares one) under the first of third curve trace? Check your settings in CabLab for Auto trim and min phase.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impulse_responses_(IR)

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

Looks like the third curve (the standard format one) hasn’t been trimmed using “Auto Trim”. Is the second curve (the Ultrares one) under the first of third curve trace? Check your settings in CabLab for Auto trim and min phase.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impulse_responses_(IR)

Thanks a lot for your kind and quick reply.
Do you think wave IR and sys IR should have same align curves if the export settings is correct?

 

[blaggers]

Thanks a lot for your kind and quick reply.
Do you think wave IR and sys IR should have same align curves if the export settings is correct?

Yes, they should look like the blue curve in your image no matter what conversion programme is used.

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

Yes, they should look like the blue curve in your image no matter what conversion programme is used.

I just downloaded and installed Cab Lab and used that to convert wave files.
Can you please advise me which settings in the application I should check?

 

[blaggers]

I just downloaded and installed Cab Lab and used that to convert wave files.
Can you please advise me which settings in the application I should check?

Um, have you read the manual - it contains good advice !??
Cab-Lab 3 Manual (fractalaudio.com)

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

Um, have you read the manual - it contains good advice !??
Cab-Lab 3 Manual (fractalaudio.com)

View attachment 75674

Thanks a lot for your advise.
I just checked the setting of Cab Lab and exported again but still align curve is dofferent.
Maybe I am missing something important?

 

[h.c.e.]

Thanks a lot for your advise.
I just checked the setting of Cab Lab and exported again but still align curve is dofferent.
Maybe I am missing something important?

Very unclear for your screen shot and description, but I'm assuming that #351 (red line) line is your conversion of wav to syx and #350 (blue line) is the one from the download that is already in .syx format? If so, you want "Min Phase" on for the "Default Processing Mode" setting, not "None", then the two will line up. Which is to say, it looks like the syx files in the download were converted with MPT on already, so in order for your own .wav to .syx conversion to line up you'll want to treat it the same.

Curious about two things though...
1. Why are you converting the wav to syx and loading the both files? They're going to be identical in the end (looks like this IR producer captured their IRs in wav, that's the one in the "24bit48khz wav" folder, and then just converted them to .syx format with Cab-Lab 3 Lite, same as you're doing, to include them in their download for convenience sake)
2. Are you aware that you can load wav files directly with Axe-Edit III? (It does the conversion to syx for and load it to cab memory in the process)

 

[blaggers]

Thanks a lot for your advise.
I just checked the setting of Cab Lab and exported again but still align curve is dofferent.
Maybe I am missing something important?

You need to set default processing mode to Min Phase.

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

Very unclear for your screen shot and description, but I'm assuming that #351 (red line) line is your conversion of wav to syx and #350 (blue line) is the one from the download that is already in .syx format? If so, you want "Min Phase" on for the "Default Processing Mode" setting, not "None", then the two will line up. Which is to say, it looks like the syx files in the download were converted with MPT on already, so in order for your own .wav to .syx conversion to line up you'll want to treat it the same.

Curious about two things though...
1. Why are you converting the wav to syx and loading the both files? They're going to be identical in the end (looks like this IR producer captured their IRs in wav, that's the one in the "24bit48khz wav" folder, and then just converted them to .syx format with Cab-Lab 3 Lite, same as you're doing, to include them in their download for convenience sake)
2. Are you aware that you can load wav files directly with Axe-Edit III? (It does the conversion to syx for and load it to cab memory in the process)

Thanks a lot for your kind reply, and sorry for the unclearness.

350 is wave file (not sys) which is provided in "24bit48khz wav" folder, and I put that into Axe Edit III by drugging and dropping.
351 is, yes, my conversion of wav to sys.
And they should have same align curve but they are not same then I wonder what is missing in my operation in Cab Lab.

I have 120 IR files in wave format and I would like to put them into Cab block, but without the conversion in Cab Lab, I can't load many IRs together then I start using Cab Lab.
However the converted sys and the original wave have completely different sound character to me then I posted this article.

If possible, can you please advise me what is missing?

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

You need to set default processing mode to Min Phase.

I set Min Phase but still seeing same issue...

 

[unix-guy]

Axe-Edit also has settings for MPT and Auto Trim in Preferences.

Use the same settings for both.

 

[h.c.e.]

I set Min Phase but still seeing same issue...

In the Wav2Syx window that comes up when you select the tool, are you sure you have the "Min Phase" option is checked on?



If I convert with these settings the two align identically:



Also if do a binary diff on the downloaded .syx and the .syx converted from the .wav file, the two are completely identical. Any difference you are hearing is do to the MPT not being applied to your conversion.

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

Axe-Edit also has settings for MPT and Auto Trim in Preferences.

Use the same settings for both.

Thanks a lot for your advice.
Understood but I assume the converting 100 wave files together is impossible, yes?

 

[Hitoshi Kato]

In the Wav2Syx window that comes up when you select the tool, are you sure you have the "Min Phase" option is checked on?

View attachment 75764

If I convert with these settings the two align identically:

View attachment 75765

Also if do a binary diff on the downloaded .syx and the .syx converted from the .wav file, the two are completely identical. Any difference you are hearing is do to the MPT not being applied to your conversion.

Finally I successfully converted the files.
I really appreciate your kind support and wanna offer you a couple of drinks if we have chance!

Is this setting written in the manual?
At least I haven’t found the description...