Cab Lab for summing Fractal IR's to save CPU

GreatGreen

Power User
Hey everybody, I'm trying to use Cab Lab to take my favorite IR's in the Axe-Fx and sum them into a single IR to save on CPU for my patches.
I'm having trouble accessing the IR's in the Axe-Fx though the app though, and the manual doesn't seem to explain how to access them.

Can anybody point me somewhere that will tell me how to mix the IR's included in the Axe-Fx in Cab Lab please? Thanks!
 
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What? Why not? They were certainly fine with not including that information anywhere on their website or in their documentation before they happily accepted my $80 to buy their IR tweaking software, which I bought specifically to tweak the IR's included in their $2,000+ modeler that contains thousands of IR's you cannot combine internally without heavy additional CPU usage.

Are they worried about people exporting their internal IR's or something? If so, are they incapable of adding the programmatic equivalent of "if an internal IR is being mixed, then disable the "Save Mix to File" button? Because that's literally all it would take to prevent that.

@FractalAudio is this true?
 
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They were certainly fine with not including that information anywhere on their website or in their documentation before they happily accepted my $80 to buy their IR tweaking software
Do most products list the things they don't allow you to do? I've never really encountered that except where they are maybe doing comparisons with other products.

Your Axe Fx comes with thousands of IRs. You can't export them. Did they document that?

I understand you're not happy, but CabLab is an IR software, not an Axe Fx software. Assuming that you would have access to those internal IRs is only that - an assumption.

Are they worried about people exporting their internal IR's or something? If so, are they incapable of adding the programmatic equivalent of "if an internal IR is being mixed, then disable the "Save Mix to File" button? Because that's literally all it would take to prevent that.

In order to use the IR you mixed it has to be loaded into a user IR slot.

If it's in a user IR slot then it can be saved/exported.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you can create a merged IR in the box by using the ToneMatch block. Do a forum search...
 
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/that-cab-block-i-need-help.163445/post-1959748

The majority of the factory cabs are licensed from 3rd parties. I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that the terms of the licensing prohibited making it easy for people to save the IRs to disk. The workaround in the above link isn’t official, but it also hasn’t been prohibited by Fractal either. If that’s not satisfactory you should talk to the sales people rather than venting to the forum.

And, just so you know, the factory cabs are good, but at least one of the vendors said that the versions in the factory cabs are not as good as their current generation IRs, so you might want to consider getting the latest versions of the cabs you are interested in and mixing those.
 
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Hi Greg,
just my 2 cents about this subject:

The majority of the factory cabs are licensed from 3rd parties. I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that the terms of the licensing prohibited making it easy for people to save the IRs to disk. The workaround in the above link isn’t official, but it also hasn’t been prohibited by Fractal either. If that’s not satisfactory you should talk to the sales people rather than venting to the forum.

Yeah, but if you bought an Axe-FXlll (for example), you are authorized to use the includes IR/Cabs as you like, even combining them using a workaround or another, same thing with 3rd parties cab pack (using Cab-Lab...why not?)
as long as you DON'T SHARE THEM! and you use them only for YOUR OWN USE ?
isn't it?

And, just so you know, the factory cabs are good, but at least one of the vendors said that the versions in the factory cabs are not as good as their current generation IRs, so you might want to consider getting the latest versions of the cabs you are interested in and mixing those.
Yes, of course!
and my wallet knows something about it^^
 
Do most products list the things they don't allow you to do? I've never really encountered that except where they are maybe doing comparisons with other products.

Your Axe Fx comes with thousands of IRs. You can't export them. Did they document that?

I understand you're not happy, but CabLab is an IR software, not an Axe Fx software. Assuming that you would have access to those internal IRs is only that - an assumption.

You've been on these forums a long time and I respect most things you say, but your response here honestly seems like disingenuous gaslighting. I didn't buy the FAS Reverb VST and am now asking why I can't import patches from it into the Axe-Fx. I didn't buy a Chevy tail light assembly, and now I'm perplexed that it doesn't fit into my Ford's tail light assembly port. I bought a piece of software from Fractal Audio dedicated to mixing and merging modular IR files, for the express purpose of mixing and merging the modular IR files included in the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx, of which there are thousands.

Of course I expected the Fractal Audio Cab Lab software to be able to mix the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx's IR's, like ANY reasonable person would, especially considering how the sales website goes out of its way to boast about how compatible Cab Lab is with the Axe-Fx, mentioning that it can directly interface with it. Cab Lab even goes out of its way to scan the names of all the Factory and Legacy IR's when it connects to the Axe-Fx.

Honestly I could ask you the same question in reverse. How could any reasonable person not expect direct compatibility in this way? In this very thread, just over an hour after I posted the original question, another user stated they were confused and disappointed when they found out the hard way as well. This isn't just some isolated incident of only me not understanding how these things work.

Frankly, for you to imply it's "obvious" that Fractal's Cab Lab software doesn't support mixing Fractal's own IR's included in the Axe-Fx, which Cab Lab goes out of its way to boast about compatibility with, is pretty insulting.


So that's just it then? Do I simply not have the option to merge the Axe IR's I'm using down to one IR to save CPU?
 
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Yeah, but if you bought an Axe-FXlll (for example), you are authorized to use the includes IR/Cabs as you like, even combining them using a workaround or another, same thing with 3rd parties cab pack (using Cab-Lab...why not?)
"as you like" isn't how commercial copyright licenses work, they carefully specify how things can be used, they don't throw open the gate and then say "except…".

Even if someone hasn't read the actual laws, American copyright law is well understood by the public because everyone knows we don't steal from others, and any IP lawyer or someone who's familiar with copyright law will tell you that even if something isn't registered in the Library of Congress it's still copyrighted once its in fixed form, such as an IR. While we're not allowed to copy them, we are allowed to make derivative works, such as by using Cab-Lab. There is also the right to make an archival copy, but since they're already built into the firmware and it's trivial to reload them, that would satisfy that need and fulfill that right; I don't think an argument taking advantage of the backdoor to duplicate and extract the IRs "to archive" would hold water.

That users of Fractal's devices figured out they can duplicate an existing factory-supplied IR doesn't mean that Fractal condones it, instead I suspect FAS tolerates it because the general functionality and flexibility of the modeler requires that capability. Using that capability in a convoluted and nonintuitive backdoor way to gain access to the IRs could get shutdown if the vendors wanted to make an issue of it with Fractal, which they might if people suddenly started abusing that backdoor. As I see it, it exists because Fractal and the vendors prefer to be benevolent toward the users.

The third-party IR vendors understand how copyright works, and that it allows derivative works, but that doesn't mean that Fractal has to make it easier to get at the built-in IRs either. Fractal can choose to be more restrictive than the vendors, but they can't choose to be less restrictive than the vendors unless the vendors specifically say Fractal has that right. Unless the copyright is sold outright, it always remains with the original author who has absolute rights how it can be used. A licensee can't expand their rights just because "they like".

Discussing the issue with Cab-Lab on the forum won't do anything very useful since it's airing a complaint instead of seeking a working solution. We in the general populace do solutions here; Fractal people wander by but this isn't the official support, it's a social media site related to Fractal. If someone wants to see something change I'd recommend calling Fractal directly, and present the issues and logic and how the application and its interaction with the modelers could be improved, in an organized manner. Be someone who wants to make a positive change and you'll get a lot farther than beating your chest in public.
 
Discussing the issue with Cab-Lab on the forum won't do anything very useful since it's airing a complaint instead of seeking a working solution.

Encryption?

Fractal could design Cab Lab with the ability to use Fractal IR's, but when a Fractal IR is used and placed in the Cab Lab mixer, Cab Lab will only output an encrypted version of whatever IR is exported, that can then only be decrypted and used in the Fractal Audio ecosystem.

If all Fractal Audio IR's are removed from the mixer, Cab Lab goes back to functioning as it does now.
 
Fractal could design Cab Lab with the ability to use Fractal IR's, but when a Fractal IR is used and placed in the Cab Lab mixer, Cab Lab will only output an encrypted version of whatever IR is exported, that can then only be decrypted and used in the Fractal Audio ecosystem.
This is actually how it works now. The .ir files are encrypted.
 
You've been on these forums a long time and I respect most things you say, but your response here honestly seems like disingenuous gaslighting. I didn't buy the FAS Reverb VST and am now asking why I can't import patches from it into the Axe-Fx. I didn't buy a Chevy tail light assembly, and now I'm perplexed that it doesn't fit into my Ford's tail light assembly port. I bought a piece of software from Fractal Audio dedicated to mixing and merging modular IR files, for the express purpose of mixing and merging the modular IR files included in the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx, of which there are thousands.

Of course I expected the Fractal Audio Cab Lab software to be able to mix the Fractal Audio Axe-Fx's IR's, like ANY reasonable person would, especially considering how the sales website goes out of its way to boast about how compatible Cab Lab is with the Axe-Fx, mentioning that it can directly interface with it. Cab Lab even goes out of its way to scan the names of all the Factory and Legacy IR's when it connects to the Axe-Fx.

Honestly I could ask you the same question in reverse. How could any reasonable person not expect direct compatibility in this way? In this very thread, just over an hour after I posted the original question, another user stated they were confused and disappointed when they found out the hard way as well. This isn't just some isolated incident of only me not understanding how these things work.

Frankly, for you to imply it's "obvious" that Fractal's Cab Lab software doesn't support mixing Fractal's own IR's included in the Axe-Fx, which Cab Lab goes out of its way to boast about compatibility with, is pretty insulting.
Sorry but we just disagree.

There's no gaslighting or insult intended.

You made an assumption about the product and you were wrong in that assumption. I can understand you being upset because it isn't what you expected...

If you contact Fractal and explain maybe they'll refund your money?

So that's just it then? Do I simply not have the option to merge the Axe IR's I'm using down to one IR to save CPU?
I already answered that at the end of my first post and others provided some links.

Edit:

I just realized part of my reply got somehow included in the quoting. I've moved it and highlighted it
 
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This is actually how it works now. The .ir files are encrypted.

Are you saying Cab Lab exports can only be succesfully uploaded and used in the Fractal ecosystem? If so, then it's even more confusing that we can't mix the included IR's.
 
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. "Be someone who wants to make a positive change and you'll get a lot farther than beating your chest in public"
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...g-fractal-irs-to-save-cpu.177990/post-2168520

Fractal Audio's specific recommendation for support is to consult these forums. Also, I've tried to DM Cliff before about other matters and never got a response. Posting here for me is being as private and as close to the source as I can possibly be. This is the Fractal forum, specifically in the Cab Lab subforum, not the larger general forums. I also didn't go to the gear page, or sevenstring, or rig talk, or any of the other major guitar forums to complain. I came here first to make sure I wasn't making a mistake and it turns out I wasn't, so I'm expressed my disappointment, which I think is perfectly fair. But immediately after that, I posted a suggestion that could possibly help with a way forward.

I've also been an Axe-Fx user and active member of these forums since around 2008, which is when I first caught on to how revolutionary and at the top of their game this company was at the time (and still is). And since then I have continuously and publicly done nothing but stay positive about everything Fractal has produced, tried to be helpful by posting ideas and suggestions for Fractal products when I think they might be useful, and I've tried to be active with guiding people through their questions when I can and offering opinions about what I think when people ask, in as positive of a way as I can. I'm not saying Fractal owes me anything, of course they don't. But I am saying I'm not just some fit-throwing, chest beating jerk like you're calling me.

I'm sorry you think me posting as close to the source as possible after taking care to confirm it wasn't me who was making a mistake first is "beating my chest in public." Maybe you should make sure you've read the situation correctly, which you certainly have not, before insulting people by posting other peoples' quotes at them that you're dying to show off.
 
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Are you saying Cab Lab exports can only be succesfully uploaded and used in the Fractal ecosystem?
No. That's not what I wrote.

However, for clarity: Cab-Lab (not Lite) can import and export many format. Cab-Lab Lite can be used to work with Fractal devices only.

Do I simply not have the option to merge the Axe IR's I'm using down to one IR to save CPU?

You cannot access the IRs that are in the factory banks on the hardware from outside the hardware. Therefore you cannot mix them down with Cab-Lab (Lite or otherwise) as both of these products only work with impulse response files that originate from files on disk.

If you purchase the Cab Packs from which the factory bank IRs come from, you can use Cab-Lab (Lite or full version) to create custom mixes and export them to your hardware units.
 
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