Cab Block Room Effects

CodePoet

CodePoet

Fractal Fanatic
Wanted to get a discussion going on the options for the room effects in the cab block.

- Am I right to think of these parameters as something akin to a virtual colorless mic being thrown up in the room at some distance from the cabinet?
- Is there a real-world equivalent for the units of the Room Size parameter? i.e. how big is "2"? Or does that matter?
- Scott posted his preferences for the settings (copied below). Do you find now that you can drop your far-field 5% mic from your IR recipe now and just go with the close-miked IRs and cab room effects?

Scott's room parms:
"I set the mix to 40%, Room size to 2.00 and the Mic distance to 70% as a personal preference and use that to critically compare speaker cab IR's throughout. Those are *my* values that I prefer. YMMV."
 
electronpirate said:
AMPS and CABS
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It's not a thread for the amps and cabs forum - this is about the cab block in the Axe II. The Amps and Cabs forums has threads of questions regarding real amps and cabs. This is a discussion of configuration of the Axe II only - no real cabs involved.
 
Tis a great topic and one I had wanted to discuss in depth - thanks for posting. It's easy to miss this important topic in all the hoopla (positive and negative); but it's an extremely important component of making FRFR a satisfying experience for the guitarist IMHO.

I approach them as a sort of 'early reflections only' sort of reverb to give the cab more depth and body in a physical space. Cab IR's by themselves - Gen1 or most any other box - have a sort of 'disconnect' that always bugged me. In the Gen1 boxes, I used a combination of early reflections vs. room reverb to approximate exactly what the II delivers to you on a platter.

If you remember the Muppets, then you know "Pigs.... IN SPACE!" and cab IR's by themselves have that sort of disconnect feeling to me as a player that always bothered me. Working with early reflections and coming to understand the importance of how they work was a huge thing to me once I started to grasp it via this forum and guys like Radley and Jay sharing their knowledge on the topic.

With the Room Settings in the Axe-FX II, you get a better sense of physical space with the cab and not JUST the cab signature applied to a tone with no depth to it.

That's how I approach it and my settings presented in the OP are my defaults that I work from to add that nuance, though subtle, to the Axe-FX. It's a very big thing if you run FRFR and it's not yet really understood that much - especially with all the noise about things competing for our attention on forums nowadays.
 
great feature, but what I find a bit "oddly" done is how you can get mono settings. not sure if anyone really played around with it, but inbetween values (IIRC, it's the size parameter) also give mono settings. I'd prefer to have maybe the fist half stereo, second half mono. stereo does sound good, but not so good if followed by a chorus etc. and that's why I usually go for just a slight bit of mono "air". afterall, if you'd mic a cab in a real room with one mic, that's what you'd get.

maybe Cliff could enhance the feature by adding a spread control (mono - stereo) ?
 
Scott Peterson said:
It's a very big thing if you run FRFR and it's not yet really understood that much - especially with all the noise about things competing for our attention on forums nowadays.
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Scott - thanks for the info. I've thought the same thing - that until recently "amp modeling" has concentrated on mostly that - the amp - and not what happens after the amp. The signal gets run through a cabinet IR and that's really all that happens post-amp. But there's a lot more happening in a room to your ears than a close-miked IR can convey. That's why I've been following your lead and making more use of far-field IRs and greater mic distances to get the "in the room" sound. I probably don't want to hear what my sound is like with my ear pressed up against the speaker - I normally want to hear it as a listener would and that includes the room.

I'll go back and read more of the Radley and Jay threads that you mention to school myself. I'm glad Cliff built in some room parameters in the Axe as I'm sure they're high quality and have the benefit of being dynamic and not printed into the IR. Which would seem to be better to audition cabinets if you are just looking for a good close-miked IR and then let the Axe handle the early reflections of the room. I just got my II so I haven't had a chance to play with these parameters yet but am glad they're there. It's easy to pass over them and think "those are probably some cab params that I should ignore as I have the other cab parms", but these are very useful.
 
I think that beyond the new horsepower, the algorithms, the memory, the 1024bit IR's in stereo, etc.. the key to differentiate and make FRFR a pleasure to use live and in the studio is what the new 'in the room effects' parameters in the cab block actually offer.

To me it's the lightening bolt that makes FRFR a force and legitimizes it as an option for the performing/recording guitarist.

We had the tone before; it's constantly been refined and further detailed and offers incredible complexity and texture as it progresses based on what Cliff and other companies are doing. The key to the II's remarkable feel and depth of tone is what these three little parameters in the cab block can do if you take the time to recognize what we have in our hands here.

I think it is time for some manufacturers like Atomic and XiTone to step up development of higher end guitarist-focused FRFR solutions. Enough of the PA monitor crap (and I say that in the nicest way) being bent to our uses; it is time for something significant to really set the world on it's ear. It's a great time to be a guitarist.
 
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Scott - Do you alter your stock cab settings when you're importing IR's as well or do you leave the above settings even when the mic choice is NONE for IR imports? There's such a huge difference in tone with those 3 cab settings and using the cabs/mics inside the Axe II vs. importing IR's (outside not inside) from RW and OH. Thoughts?
 
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gvsb15 said:
Scott - Do you alter your stock cab settings when you're importing IR's as well or do you leave the above settings even when the mic choice is NONE for IR imports? There's such a huge difference in tone with those 3 cab settings and using the cabs/mics inside the Axe II vs. importing IR's (outside not inside) from RW and OH. Thoughts?
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Here's what I do on importing cabs now. I'll use Redwire for this example. I do a custom mix of the four positions from the TC30 mic. 25% each position. This yields a very neutral, yet full and accurate IR of the speaker/cab in question. I have found that I can then use the room/mic and so forth just as I can with the 'stock' IR's the II shipped with.

The OwnHammers are different. I treat them individually; and do NOT use the II's mic modeling. I do however use my room settings; it's the 'space' I like to hear around the cab.
 
Nice. That's a great tip about the RW settings. So, for OH you're zeroing out Mic Spacing but leaving your Room Level and Room Size settings? Editing of course those two by OH amp/mic. I've been riding your stock settings (w/ lower room level) and they just make all my custom patches shine.
 
gvsb15 said:
Nice. That's a great tip about the RW settings. So, for OH you're zeroing out Mic Spacing but leaving your Room Level and Room Size settings? Editing of course those two by OH amp/mic. I've been riding your stock settings (w/ lower room level) and they just make all my custom patches shine.
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On the OwnHammer's I am actually leaving the three room setting parameters the same, but not choosing a mic for the speaker.

On all the stock/RedWire (and stock OwnHammer) IR's, I am going with a SM57 on the left, R121 on the right. I turn the R121 level down to -3db. Zero out the speaker drive. Lowcut/highcut to taste (often needs none).
 
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