CAB block frequency range?

Raab90

Raab90

Inspired
Hello!

I have a makedo stereo FRFR setup made up of a pair of PA speakers after my Matrix GT1000FX.

It is widely suggested to do some high and low freq cutting when going thru a FRFR setup because the AXE offers a broader bandwidth than the one useful for guitar applications, and the FRFR speaker will allow all of this non-guitar freqs go thru. But, shouldn't this be solved by placing the cab as the last block in the chain?
I mean, if the cab block is an IR taken out of a real cab, and thus acts as the filter charasteristic of that real cab, shouldn't it allow to pass only guitar cab frequencies?

I'm considering buying a KPA solutions BlueAmps 212 FR... Any words on this?

Hope I made any sense, I usually don't. Thanks
 
Good question, I've wondered the same. I think the IR provides the EQ but doesn't actually chop everything outside of the range of what has been sampled (ie, the original cab). A filter does, without "flavouring" the sound beyond what's cut out.

I always chop up to ~60 (and higher the louder I go), and down to 10k (and lower the louder I go). It always sounds better. So that's the only reasoning I can come up with.

Edit: for clarity on the first paragraph... What I mean is, a Cab IR has a lot of "flavour" in the EQ range of the cab, ie something like 70Hz to 7000Hz or whatever they are. But the IR doesn't actually CUT the EQ below and above those levels, whereas the cab in real life obviously does because it simply can't reproduce them. Thus using the Cut tools to cut that "extraneous" information seems sensible and necessary.

It's for this reason that I find it very frustrating that you can't set defaults, because it's a big annoyance having to remember to go and adjust the Cut settings every time I use a Cab block or mess around. I would never ever need the Cab block to default to 20-20k.
 
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Good question indeed. I also cut low & high in the cab block and find it helps...a lot.

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A guitar cabinet doesn't have a huge range its true, however, its not like there is a brick wall limit past a certain frequency range either; there is some upper frequency spectrum there, its just rolled off to a certain degree. You can roll off even more with the high and low pass filters (don't remember what they are, 3db per octave slopes or maybe 6 ?)
 
Low cut depends on how you tune. You don't want to cut off the fundamental frequency of your lowest string.

Check out this chart: Frequencies of Musical Notes, A4 = 440 Hz

Standard tuning low E is note E2 (82.41 Hz) for reference.

I usually set the low cut to about 60hz and I tune half step flat on most of my guitars (6 stringers). If you are rocking a 7 or 8 string, it's going to need to be a bit lower.
 
mr_fender said:
Low cut depends on how you tune. You don't want to cut off the fundamental frequency of your lowest string.

Check out this chart: Frequencies of Musical Notes, A4 = 440 Hz

Standard tuning low E is note E2 (82.41 Hz) for reference.

I usually set the low cut to about 60hz and I tune half step flat on most of my guitars (6 stringers). If you are rocking a 7 or 8 string, it's going to need to be a bit lower.
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You set the low cut to about 60hz "in the cab block"? Thanks for clarifying.
 
Raab90 said:
I mean, if the cab block is an IR taken out of a real cab, and thus acts as the filter charasteristic of that real cab, shouldn't it allow to pass only guitar cab frequencies?
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Excellent question. I want to know the answer to this too.
 
Because the IRs generally are made with close miking, so the mics pick all that highly directional frecuencies that are almost lost when you have a cab in the room...And also the low cut helps the FRFR speaker to work with less stress of reproducing useless bass. If you add some procesing after the cab block it also helps, say, a compresor, to react to things it should react and not low frecuency crap.
 
I still use the HiCut and LoCut params in the Cab block for FOH and for FRFR monitoring. Did just that this weekend when gigging through a PA. Sound guy was very pleased with the direct tone I gave him, with LoCut at 120 and HiCut at 6k.

When using my CLR for monitoring (I wasn't using it this weekend, I used my real cab), I tend to use a broader range, say HiCut at 8k, to keep the sparkle in my clean tone, while still staying out of the way of the cymbals. LoCut depends on the specific room. There have been occasions where I upped that to 150k or even 199k. I use a single global Cab block so I just have to adjust it once to take effect in all my presets.

There's no need to respect the fundamental frequencies of the strings. Engineers have been cutting guitar tones above 80 Hz for ages. It's about making the guitar fit in the mix optimally, allowing each instrument its own sonic space.

As mentioned above the extended frequency range is caused by close-micing. Add to that the characteristics of the specific microphone (EQ dips and spikes, and proximity).
 
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tolchocks said:
Because the IRs generally are made with close miking, so the mics pick all that highly directional frecuencies that are almost lost when you have a cab in the room...
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Yes, that's clear. However, I'm not comparing with amp in the room, I'm talking about a comparison with a miked amp/cab.

tolchocks said:
And also the low cut helps the FRFR speaker to work with less stress of reproducing useless bass.
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But the point is that the useless bass isn't produced to this extent by a guitar cab (assuming room acoustics, master volume setting, amp eq, ,etc, being equal). So, why, if an IR is a representation of the cab, do we need to cut the low and high end at all? Clearly, real life experience informs that we do need to do so - but this seems contrary to what is expected (at least in my case) from an IR.
 
It's for this reason that I find it very frustrating that you can't set defaults, because it's a big annoyance having to remember to go and adjust the Cut settings every time I use a Cab block or mess around. I would never ever need the Cab block to default to 20-20k.
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Use a PEQ or GEQ or Filter instead, in all presets, saved as a global block.
 
With Blue Amps you can't go wrong.
We tested several products from KPA Solutions at the German Axefest in Leipzig 2013 and they all were great.
 
Hi Yek Brian in AZ here :) Asking for a point of clarification here--are you saying that you only use 1 cab IR for every preset you use? If so, which one I might ask.... Thank you!!

yek said:
I still use the HiCut and LoCut params in the Cab block for FOH and for FRFR monitoring. Did just that this weekend when gigging through a PA. Sound guy was very pleased with the direct tone I gave him, with LoCut at 120 and HiCut at 6k.

When using my CLR for monitoring (I wasn't using it this weekend, I used my real cab), I tend to use a broader range, say HiCut at 8k, to keep the sparkle in my clean tone, while still staying out of the way of the cymbals. LoCut depends on the specific room. There have been occasions where I upped that to 150k or even 199k. I use a single global Cab block so I just have to adjust it once to take effect in all my presets.

There's no need to respect the fundamental frequencies of the strings. Engineers have been cutting guitar tones above 80 Hz for ages. It's about making the guitar fit in the mix optimally, allowing each instrument its own sonic space.

As mentioned above the extended frequency range is caused by close-micing. Add to that the characteristics of the specific microphone (EQ dips and spikes, and proximity).
Click to expand...
 
Hi, I use a stereo cab with two IRs representing my real 2x12 cab.
IRs: OwnHammer latest Multi Speaker library, EV-12L (SP2 mix) and G12H Mix (SP2 mix).
 
Actually guitar cabs do emit quite some sound outside the 100-6000 Hz range usually mentioned. The highs often get washed out in the room acoustics because the cab is aimed at your knees, not at your ears. Some of the lows get drowned out by the bass player. Put your ears against the grill cloth at the sweet spot some time. Not too loud, of course. Microphones do pick that up and engineers usually filter much of that out.

That's essentially what we're doing here. Sit in the engineers chair as well as the guitarists'.

I use the same cab for all my tones as well. I find I like one combo best for both drive and clean. Factory cabs 61 and 60, panned 30/-30, null mic, delay right cab only 0.045 ms, cut off at currently 107 and 15K. Both cabs are pretty similar, yet still complement each other, so hearing just one side doesn't sound totally off.
 
Yek, I usually cut around 8k for high-gain sounds, and 12k for clean sounds (on a 2x12 cab). Do you cut cleans this high too? I found that if I go down for them as for my hi-gain presets, I lose a bit of chime on my tone.



yek said:
I still use the HiCut and LoCut params in the Cab block for FOH and for FRFR monitoring. Did just that this weekend when gigging through a PA. Sound guy was very pleased with the direct tone I gave him, with LoCut at 120 and HiCut at 6k.

When using my CLR for monitoring (I wasn't using it this weekend, I used my real cab), I tend to use a broader range, say HiCut at 8k, to keep the sparkle in my clean tone, while still staying out of the way of the cymbals. LoCut depends on the specific room. There have been occasions where I upped that to 150k or even 199k. I use a single global Cab block so I just have to adjust it once to take effect in all my presets.

There's no need to respect the fundamental frequencies of the strings. Engineers have been cutting guitar tones above 80 Hz for ages. It's about making the guitar fit in the mix optimally, allowing each instrument its own sonic space.

As mentioned above the extended frequency range is caused by close-micing. Add to that the characteristics of the specific microphone (EQ dips and spikes, and proximity).
Click to expand...
 
Jean-Pierre Brunod said:
Yek, I usually cut around 8k for high-gain sounds, and 12k for clean sounds (on a 2x12 cab). Do you cut cleans this high too? I found that if I go down for them as for my hi-gain presets, I lose a bit of chime on my tone.
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I'm setting it much lower. IMO there isn't much use for > 10k frequency content for guitars ayway.

For dirty to heavy gain tones, I really like it as low as 5.5k. Keeps the tone very focussed, and fits great in the mix.

But that value takes away too much chime from the clean tones.

By coincedence I tested HiCut for clean tones this weekend, I prefer it at max. 8kHz.
 
Raab90 said:
Hello!

I have a makedo stereo FRFR setup made up of a pair of PA speakers after my Matrix GT1000FX.

It is widely suggested to do some high and low freq cutting when going thru a FRFR setup because the AXE offers a broader bandwidth than the one useful for guitar applications, and the FRFR speaker will allow all of this non-guitar freqs go thru. But, shouldn't this be solved by placing the cab as the last block in the chain?
I mean, if the cab block is an IR taken out of a real cab, and thus acts as the filter charasteristic of that real cab, shouldn't it allow to pass only guitar cab frequencies?

I'm considering buying a KPA solutions BlueAmps 212 FR... Any words on this?

Hope I made any sense, I usually don't. Thanks
Click to expand...

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/94787-few-words-about-live-sound.html
 
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