C minor 11 b5 chord

Well... The #9 is the equivalent note enharmonically as the b3... Since a major chord already has a natural 3 it can't also have a b3.

Like the infamous Hendrix chord (dom7#9).
But that's what I'm saying is weird about the chart. Why not just call it an Fm9? I have seen chords that have maj 3rd and minor 3rd, but when I see chords that indicate 2 adjacent notes, i.e., only a half-step apart, that leads me to think maybe it's really a Maj7 shape, and they're calling it by a certain name because all that note is is a passing tone.
At the end of the day, ya gotta hear what's going on, in context, because as was mentioned, lots of times charts can be wrong. That's why band directors always told you to bring a pen with you to rehearsals. ;) (One of the reasons...)
 
Meas. 51-52 are Edim7/G, C7b9. Bass G to C, everything else on Edim7 (until lead voc. root over the C7b9).

But that's what I'm saying is weird about the chart. Why not just call it an Fm9?
An F(#9b9) chord symbol could exist, but that implies a major third (A), flat 9 (Gb) and sharp 9 (G#/Ab) are all there. Plus F of course, and C if including a 5th.
 
An F(#9b9) chord symbol could exist, but that implies a major third (A), flat 9 (Gb) and sharp 9 (G#/Ab) are all there. Plus F of course, and C if including a 5th.
No, I agree with you. It just seemed to me, when I tried various voicings of trying to construct that chord in a literal fashion, nothing sounded good, even trying various inversions. It's like, too many dissonant notes.

Plus, like I mentioned never having seen that chord shape called out, I pulled my Chord Chemistry book off the shelf (what a wealth of knowledge!) and I didn't see that chord. Allan Holdsworth probably has a shape for it though! :)
 
You don't necessarily have to play the actual written chord, often a reduction of the notes over the various instruments, including melody. A simple 3-note m7b5 should suffice (C Gb Bb).


This is where I’ve landed.

I haven’t tried to read a chart in over 30 years so this had been a wonderfully humbling experience. I love seeing all these comments on how to approach charts. Thanks!
 
But F denotes Fmajor... It didn't say Fm...

In any case, it seems the chart is less than accurate :)
I know that. I actually should've said Fm/addb9. Because technically, that original chord would have an F, F#, & G# to cover the specific items called out by the chord (the F, the b9, & the #9.)
Since a #9 is the same as a minor 3rd, and you're not forced to play the 3rd, or even the 5th, when dealing with complex chords like that, I was looking at it in a way that would simplify the voicing (since trying to cram those 9ths, along with the major 3rd sounded terrible), so that's why I was looking at it like that.
But it would be wrong, because an Fm9 wouldn't have that b9.
 
But that's what I'm saying is weird about the chart. Why not just call it an Fm9? I have seen chords that have maj 3rd and minor 3rd, but when I see chords that indicate 2 adjacent notes, i.e., only a half-step apart, that leads me to think maybe it's really a Maj7 shape, and they're calling it by a certain name because all that note is is a passing tone.
At the end of the day, ya gotta hear what's going on, in context, because as was mentioned, lots of times charts can be wrong. That's why band directors always told you to bring a pen with you to rehearsals. ;) (One of the reasons...)
That's been my thought many times looking at charts. I took a couple years of theory in school, along with composition and performance, and when reading other people's charts it's like they have no idea how to remain in the key or notate accidentals.

It's hard enough when they get that wrong, but then to casually toss them into the guitar charts….

But what really gets me going is when one chord has sharps, and the next chord has flats, and the key hasn't changed!?

OH F*IN GET OFF MY LAWN!
 
Couldn't read through all the responses, but that's just a less common spelling of the common half-diminished 7th jazz chord.

C-Bb-Eb-Gb I one of the ways I normally play it with the C on the low E, and the other three forming the Am chord shape below it.
 
Couldn't read through all the responses, but that's just a less common spelling of the common half-diminished 7th jazz chord.

C-Bb-Eb-Gb I one of the ways I normally play it with the C on the low E, and the other three forming the Am chord shape below it.
This.

All depends on how it passes in sequence, of course.
 
Ugh, I hate pit charts. Is there a keyboardist in the group? My general rule is that the bigger the band is, the smaller the chords I play. In your situation, I’d forget the root and just play the 3rd, 7th, and upper extensions. Better yet, you could transcribe the guitar part from the original recording (provided that the performance follows the original arrangement) and forget the chart entirely.
 
Ugh, I hate pit charts. Is there a keyboardist in the group? My general rule is that the bigger the band is, the smaller the chords I play. In your situation, I’d forget the root and just play the 3rd, 7th, and upper extensions. Better yet, you could transcribe the guitar part from the original recording (provided that the performance follows the original arrangement) and forget the chart entirely.

I have a lot of leeway from the band director on chords and voicings. I’m going with Cm7b5
 
1.Listen to the record + 2. Use common sense = 3. That chart is wrong.

The chords in the passage you identified (in the original key) are super simple.
"-lessly" "devo" "-ted"
C#-7 C-7 B-7 B-7/E (E11)

The bass player follows the chromatic descent of the pedal steel but then goes to the V (E).
The guitar skanks the C#-7 on 2, then strums the B-7 with no root (E11) on 4.

If you were up against a headstrong M.D. I could email the song's writer, John Farrar, for you. He loves his Axe-Fx!!!

I love Olivia. Amazing lady. I can't find any photos of her and me at the moment, but here she is with my kids.

1642534107218.png
 
1.Listen to the record + 2. Use common sense = 3. That chart is wrong.

The chords in the passage you identified (in the original key) are super simple.
"-lessly" "devo" "-ted"
C#-7 C-7 B-7 B-7/E (E11)

The bass player follows the chromatic descent of the pedal steel but then goes to the V (E).
The guitar skanks the C#-7 on 2, then strums the B-7 with no root (E11) on 4.
Cool pic. Also the Julianna Hatfield rock-oriented version is a good go-to for the chords here. I wouldn't be so quick to ignore a chart though, it isn't always the right choice to be "correct" when everyone else is playing something else :tearsofjoy:
 
That chord is not intended to "necessarily" be played with the b5 and the 11 at the same time, however I have seen it before. It is like a suspended b5 chord. To be honest, if I see those on a chart, I play Cmb5. The sound you have is either this chord going to some form of F7 or it chord be the VII chord in Db major. It also is a common substitution for BMaj7. A m7b5 is just a regular old minor chord with a 6th in the bass. So a regular old dorain scale works over it perfectly. The sus sound is more of a movement, so if you play this chord on the 8th fret with your first finger on the b5 which would be F# on the second string, you simply keep the shape of the chord and slide your finger down to F on the second string, giving you the 11. The chord is intended for pianists, not guitar. Cool idea, but the minor third and the minor 5 is the sound that will ring over any of the other extensions. This happens all the time is jazz, no worries here.
 
1.Listen to the record + 2. Use common sense = 3. That chart is wrong.

The chords in the passage you identified (in the original key) are super simple.
"-lessly" "devo" "-ted"
C#-7 C-7 B-7 B-7/E (E11)

The bass player follows the chromatic descent of the pedal steel but then goes to the V (E).
The guitar skanks the C#-7 on 2, then strums the B-7 with no root (E11) on 4.

If you were up against a headstrong M.D. I could email the song's writer, John Farrar, for you. He loves his Axe-Fx!!!

I love Olivia. Amazing lady. I can't find any photos of her and me at the moment, but here she is with my kids.

View attachment 94480

That’s so cool! She has a beautiful voice.
 
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