Buying an Axe II

[BigD1977]

I came online this morning and noticed a lot of talk regarding a waiting list for the Axe II. I investigated, and saw the RRP of the Axe had been raised by $400 since I last checked, and a waiting list has been implemented, with a $400 coupon scheme.

I also noticed a thread this evening asking for a straight answer to a question respectfully asked regarding the fulfilling of the waiting list. So far, there are 28 replies, including one slightly snippy one from a global moderator who doesn't work for FAS, and no official response, or answer to the question.

I have noticed that the users of this forum come in a couple of guises, and can be roughly partitioned into 2 categories. There are those who regard everything Cliff does as godlike and regard him with the same infallibility as Ghandi, and those who are getting annoyed regarding recent developments, and are prepared to snap and bark at anyone who remotely treats them with disrespect.

My reason for saying all of this will become apparent pretty soon. First off, Cliff isn't Ghandi. What he has done for guitar tone is great, and I am grateful for his efforts, and I feel he should be justly reimbursed for his work. However, I regard the latest way that Fractal have handled demand for their new product as amateurish. I have read a lot today about business practice, and raising the RRP a few days after release of a new product as a way of dealing with unexpected demand is laughable, and raises negative feeling regarding FAS. A 'first come first served' list with no exceptions would have been better and not resulted in a lot of negative feeling.

Secondly, as a consumer, you do not have a right to own an Axe II. You have a right to ask and then pay for it. If the unit breaks, you have certain rights to return-ability, but you do not have a right to know or dictate business practice to the supplier. You only have the right to make observations, and only in a polite way. You do not have the right to abuse.

Thirdly, you then have a right to sell it on if you would like to. You don't have the right to hunt sellers down and shoot them like dogs. Ebay sellers are not breaking the law by pushing on their units, or by buying 20 at a time and then selling them.

Fourth, some Mods should hold themselves with a little more restraint than the average forum user. That's why they are Mods.

Fifth, some users should restrain themselves a little more, and realise that there are ways of voicing your opinions a little better.

Personally, I am doing what I feel is morally right. I am not buying an Axe II from FAS or G66. I want one, but I will not be party to the current melee, as this would be a rubber stamp on the current FAS business practice.

I am going to find an ebay seller in the US in the future and buy one for less money than I will pay here in Europe from G66. This way, Cliff will get paid, I will not be a party to this (IMO idiotic) business practice, and I will get a good deal in the same way as I have before.

Thank you for reading.

 

[rUsirius]

You're welcome.

 

[jkstraw]

Good post - I agree with most of it. I'd add - I don't know why anyone cares about the constraints of a small shop or other excuses people make on behalf of FAS. To many excuses - great product, bad launches, great ongoing product support. 2 out of 3 ain't bad - but it doesn't make the bad one any better.

 

[bufon63]

I have noticed that the users of this forum come in a couple of guises, and can be roughly partitioned into 2 categories. There are those who regard everything Cliff does as godlike and regard him with the same infallibility as Ghandi, and those who are getting annoyed regarding recent developments, and are prepared to snap and bark at anyone who remotely treats them with disrespect.

I'm in the middle

 

[count_chocolat]

Interesting post.

FAS has the right to run their business the way they want to, and as a successful sales professional, there is nothing wrong with what they have done(when you really consider the big picture).

If people respected that simple basic fact, things would be much smoother.

FAS could very well decide to shut her down tomorrow morning and no one is getting anything...

 

[BigD1977]

Interesting post.

FAS has the right to run their business the way they want to, and as a successful sales professional, there is nothing wrong with what they have done(when you really consider the big picture).

If people respected that simple basic fact, things would be much smoother.

FAS could very well decide to shut her down tomorrow morning and no one is getting anything...

When you really consider the big picture, the real people keeping FAS going are the customers. Without a market, the company is redundant. The bad feeling generated among the customer base by the way they have handled this launch is testimony in itself. True, there are some people that will never be happy, and the Ultra is the best unit of it's type that I have used so far. That doesn't excuse this move.

As a sales professional, if you told your customer that a product was going to be one price, and then when the same customer tries to pay for the same product a few days later is told that it is actually more expensive due to demand management, I can guarantee that your customer would not be very impressed. Whether they decide to continue with the transaction after is hypothetical. The response on the forums to this business practice, and the further lack of official confirmation about where the new units are being sold (be it through the waiting list or directly for the inflated price) IS bad business because it shows a lack of respect for customers who are on waiting lists, and thus, are prepared to wait for the unit while others may be getting theirs purely on the merit of paying the inflated price, rather than being a long term customer and showing loyalty. It gives people the idea (correctly or not) that FAS is turning into a greedy money grabbing company with dubious product launch management skills, and this is not healthy. Therefore, there IS something wrong with what they have done.

I respect that FAS have the right to run their business the way they see fit. I do not respect any company that handles a product launch the way they have done, hence my decision to go the way of the ebay sellers.

FAS shutting up shop tomorrow is a ridiculous idea, and is without need of a reply. What I have dealt with are all realistic situations.

Once again, I want to point out that this has nothing to do with the quality of the product, and is not a personal attack on anyone. It is purely a statement of opinion regarding the business practices.

 

[andreww]

The Ultra is by far the best piece of gear I have purchased. I can't see myself every buying amplifiers, cabs and pedals again. Having said that I have been a midi/rack guy for well over 20 years, so was always comfortabler with digital gear.
But, I have no intensions of buying an Axe II based on everything I am seeing. There are far more important things in life to deal with than being consumed with this saga.....

 

[Brick_top]

In my opinion these kind of posts are kind of out of order? When someone comes along and says "This is wrong/This is how you do it"... something feels wrong, don't know how to explain.

 

[BigD1977]

Likewise, andreww, I am incredibly happy with my Ultra also. Since getting it I have sold a Marshall and a Mesa stack, an AC30 combo and all of my pedals because the unit does an incredible job and is far more cost effective. I completely agree. There are far more important things in life.

Brick_top I am merely voicing my opinion, my course of action, and my reasoning behind it. Too many people rant without either focus or solution. I am not doing either. I am merely providing solutions to problems as I see them. The thread closing and infractions that I have seen handed recently out could have been prevented by handling the product launch in a more consumer friendly way.

I think some positives are in order also to balance out my criticisms. First things first.

If I ever get the chance to meet Cliff, I will shake his hand and thank him for developing the Axe FX. It is a product of great value to me, and has replaced my past rigs. It is obviously a labour of love for him, and the free updates are a particularly excellent facet of owning a unit. The time and effort that has gone into R&D is huge, and in this area, FAS are to be applauded for not being slaves to profit.

Next, this forum is also a brilliant resource. When I first read the manual and started to investigate my Ultra, I thought that the manual was a little sparse in its information. However, I realise that this is an issue of the sheer complexity of the unit, and there is no possible way that the manual could ever cover every users need without rainforests trembling. If I have needed a solution to any problem, a quick search online through this forum has always yielded the solution. In particular, I am indebted to both Yeks and Voes who have put together some truly excellent resources of information.

Lastly, the price of the unit is extremely reasonable. This may come as a surprise, given what I have written before, but I have never once said that the Axe costs too much. If such a unit were to cost more, the price would still be reasonable, as it has become not only the direct replacement for my professional rigs, but it has also given me access to more amps than I could possibly ever afford.

 

[count_chocolat]

As a sales professional, if you told your customer that a product was going to be one price, and then when the same customer tries to pay for the same product a few days later is told that it is actually more expensive due to demand management, I can guarantee that your customer would not be very impressed.

Not necessarely...

Unless one issues a formal quotation or has some sort of claim that prices are valid for X amount of days...both pricing and conditions of sale are open to change at any time...both up or down. Nowhere on Fractal's site is there anything showing that pricing or conditions are fixed for any time frame.
Customers should understand that this is a possibility because its part of any business model. i.e: if there is a bump in raw material price, component pricing, fuel costs, extra labour cost. Its perfectly acceptable to increase your price to maintain your margin.
If you loose business to competition because of it, thats part of the risk but it's in no way unethical like most claim on these sites. Especially when dealing with "niche" products.

 

[BigD1977]

Nowhere on Fractal's site is there anything showing that pricing or conditions are fixed for any time frame.

if there is a bump in raw material price, component pricing, fuel costs, extra labour cost. Its perfectly acceptable to increase your price to maintain your margin.

I mentioned 'due to demand management', not because of increased costs. This would, and has caused bad feeling among the customer base. It's also pretty obvious that pricing and conditions are open to change. I never said they weren't. I just said it was bad business practice. I also never said it was unethical.

It IS bad practice to start with a lower RRP, then raise it within days of release as a way of managing demand. It's not illegal, but it is a good way of annoying your loyal customers and introducing a sense of elitism and effective queue jumping.

 

[count_chocolat]

I understand your point, however, trying to fullfill a higher demand may very well bring in higher cost. Overtime, extra labour, even rush shipments of components and raw materials. Can be a very big problem...

We both dont know their internal business or any of their internal issues, but it's theirs to manage and grow or run into the ground if they choose too...

 

[Webb]

Not necessarely...

Unless one issues a formal quotation or has some sort of claim that prices are valid for X amount of days...both pricing and conditions of sale are open to change at any time...both up or down. Nowhere on Fractal's site is there anything showing that pricing or conditions are fixed for any time frame.
Customers should understand that this is a possibility because its part of any business model. i.e: if there is a bump in raw material price, component pricing, fuel costs, extra labour cost. Its perfectly acceptable to increase your price to maintain your margin.
If you loose business to competition because of it, thats part of the risk but it's in no way unethical like most claim on these sites. Especially when dealing with "niche" products.

Let's not forget that many sold their Ultra based on the premise that the price would be $2200 and promises that there would be plenty to go around. Shame on me I guess. I sold my Ultra for $1600 because I felt comfortable paying the extra $600 for the added features of the II. Had I known it would cost me an additional $1000 out-of-pocket to upgrade and have more of a chance of getting struck by lightning than actually scoring one, I would have never sold the Ultra. I know...waaaaaa, poor me! Whatever...

I'm pretty high up on the waiting list, but let's be realistic...as long as people are willing to throw the extra money, the waiting list will continue to wait. If the idea of the price increase was to subdue demand, as stated, then the price should again be adjusted to something even higher to give those on the list a fighting chance. But it seems more like FAS is trying to put out an inferno with a water pistol. "Let's start a wait list *wink wink* so it appears we're giving our customers what they want, while at the same time giving us an excuse to up the price." It's a lose-win. Hopefully that's not the case. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.

 

[Brick_top]

AFAIK You can still buy it at 2200$. The waiting list was created because of how hard was to snag the II when it appeared in the store. Right?

 

[count_chocolat]

Webb,

Trying to determine their intent and strategy without being in their business is where things get out of hand, we dont know all the variables. Its been my experience that things are usually simpler than they appear, people running a business rarrely have time to scheme and devise plans to deceive like in the movies.

Most of the time they are just trying to do what "they think" is right for the customer or market.

 

[BigD1977]

I understand your point, however, trying to fullfill a higher demand may very well bring in higher cost. Overtime, extra labour, even rush shipments of components and raw materials. Can be a very big problem...

We both dont know their internal business or any of their internal issues, but it's theirs to manage and grow or run into the ground if they choose too...

Agreed, but if that was the case, should the waiting list not take priority? Also, if costs have run up higher than expected, why issue $400 coupons to people on the waiting list? Why not raise the price by $100 and treat all equally?

 

[BigD1977]

AFAIK You can still buy it at 2200$. The waiting list was created because of how hard was to snag the II when it appeared in the store. Right?

So I understand.

 

[Webb]

Webb,

Trying to determine their intent and strategy without being in their business is where things get out of hand, we dont know all the variables. Its been my experience that things are usually simpler than they appear, people running a business rarrely have time to scheme and devise plans to deceive like in the movies.

Most of the time they are just trying to do what "they think" is right for the customer or market.

Just giving my opinion. And I do not think FAS is trying to devise plans to deceive. Quite the opposite actually...I do not think FAS had a plan to begin with and are now making it up as they go along.

 

[count_chocolat]

Agreed, but if that was the case, should the waiting list not take priority? Also, if costs have run up higher than expected, why issue $400 coupons to people on the waiting list? Why not raise the price by $100 and treat all equally?

Perhaps, but then again we dont know how they are runnign things internally. Perhaps, they added another shift, approved some OT or an additional assembly line which "costs more" and those units are dedicated to immediate delivery and the "normal" budgeted production is going to the waiting list and the 2 distributors.

Does it make good business sense, I dont know, I can only guess! I do not have all the variable...would I do things differently, probably, but its not my business to run.

 

[count_chocolat]

Quite the opposite actually...I do not think FAS had a plan to begin with and are now making it up as they go along.

I believe that they had a plan, in hindsight perhaps not the best one(we dont know this for a fact). But trying to adjust is a good thing, that means they are trying to do what's right...