Buyers Remorse Anyone?

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I had a tone on the Standard that I loved, never got it on my Ultra-should have kept the standard
until I got the tone. I am lusting for the II, but will keep my Ultra until i have the tones/sounds I want.

The standard was great and probably still is!
 
I should have my II in hands tomorrow- but if I would not have been fortunate enough to move into a II, i would have a Ultra with no regrets. As good as ANY gear is, it will not make the Ultra sound bad; the Ultra can stand on its own and is a ridiculously powerful tool/instrument....
 
I stopped believing all the better hype a loooong time ago. The Ultra/Matrix/v30's does exactly the high gain stuff I dig and with some expander and MBC tricks i improved the dynamic respons dramaticly. Oops now I am hyping the Ultra ..... sorry :)
 
Actually, yes! I have... quite a bit lately. It's killer... and that's all I can say. Clark, call it what you want, but there have been significant changes in recent Axe-II firmware - tone matching, scenes and now the upcoming v10 - that are evident to many that have the II and something you may have missed out on.

But back to the original topic - No regrets here either.. I spent way more time tweaking with my Ultra and REALLY liked my presets, but can get the same/better from the Axe-II faster, and tone is really NOT my forte. I love the extra control, pick dynamics, vol control etc that are far more responsive and "obvious" than the Ultra. I'd still play the Ultra if I didn't have the II tho' as its still a killer device.

Like I said, I play with an Axe-II every week. Today I'll be recording with one. Personally I'm mostly missing the extra custom IR slots. Maybe the new amp models would be cool also. And I've been "tone matching" like a year before the Axe-II got that feature. :D

IMHO guitar tone is mostly about the cabinet and in this case IR. That's why I'm always making new ones. Same amazing IR can sound very similar on just about any amp sim. After that it's really hard to tell a the difference between GEN1 and GEN2 modeling. Here's a clip if you don't believe me.

 
Everytime I get new equipment, I try to make it sound the way the old sounded. EVERYTIME.

Sometimes I return the new stuff if I cant get my old sound AND beyond.

Soundwise, I think my sound was nearly the same with the ULTRA as the II. The II just has much more to offer in terms of usabillity in a live environment. AND I find it easier to dial in the sounds I need, In the beginning of the II, I had a little remorse.That soon changed.

Looking forward to the new update :)

AAEN
 
;) .... ..... Have you tried it? :D

I think there's so much of it that is hype. After every firmware everyone's saying how it's a million times better. Still using the same IR on my Ultra and the Axe-II on FW9 sounded exactly the same. The feel was different. Not better or worse. Different. Sure you can scientifically zoom in and prove that Axe-II is higher quality but let's face it. We all were happy with the Standard Axe-Fx and dialed in our tones and got pissed after firmware updates changed our patches and we had to do it all over again. :) And it's not like anyone on the forum ever bashed the Ultra or Standard because they didn't sound good.

But that's my opinion, you don't have to agree. :)
There is no denial that the Standard and Ultra are still phenomenal. No I have not tried Firmware 10 but I have heard it from the players demoing it. I was an Ultra guy and didn't get the Fractal until Firmware 4.0. To my ears there has always been a change in all firmwares but it started getting really audible from Firmware 7 to 9,and 10 sounds a lot more open,has a lot more hair,has this rawness to it that was mostly eradicated in firmware 9,but now it has gone to a whole different stage. Fractal has started to react more like those big vintage amps,not that it couldn't in the past but now it doesn't take much of an effort to get that feel and 10 seems to really display that. Before the Fractal was a sound engineers best friend now it's a guitar player's best friend and yet can equally satisfy the engineer if needed. The gap has been closed in my honest opinion,that's the way I hear it and I genuinely don't regret selling the Ultra. If you still love the Ultra that's great,I love it too but I did hear a lot of changes on the II along the way. It's not even about hype if that were the case I wouldn't have made the shift when firmware 4 came out. I didn't care about the II at all until then,now it takes less time to get better tones,and now they have come to the point where comparison with the real thing is baseless. I couldn't be happier making the shift:)
 
I do feel like the OP in some way.
I have both: a II and a Standard. I was supposed to sell the standard to recoup a bit on the investment but I just don't manage to clone most of my tones on the II. I'm close but not there yet.
I do find some of the sims on the II are better/easier to dial in but I miss the character of some of the amps on the Standard (BROWN, CORNCOB, BUTTERY and a bit the SHIVER LEAD). On the other hand, the Fenders in general are better and it's easier to dial in any MARSHALL sim.
I guess it's only a matter of getting used to the II and starting from scratch. This I haven't done yet as I hoped it would be easier to translate legacy sounds to the II.
 
Like I said, I play with an Axe-II every week. Today I'll be recording with one. Personally I'm mostly missing the extra custom IR slots. Maybe the new amp models would be cool also. And I've been "tone matching" like a year before the Axe-II got that feature. :D

IMHO guitar tone is mostly about the cabinet and in this case IR. That's why I'm always making new ones. Same amazing IR can sound very similar on just about any amp sim. After that it's really hard to tell a the difference between GEN1 and GEN2 modeling. Here's a clip if you don't believe me.
I misunderstood your initial post then.. I took it to mean you "heard" the Axe-II being played by the bandmate, while you used the Ultra.
As far as sounding the same goes.. I agree. A blind A/B test can leave little discernible difference on the High-gain models. Heck I was matching tone back in my Line6 modeler days.
But it's not the tone that makes it shine IMHO. It's the playability - as I mentioned previously. Since you say you are playig the 2 regularly, I guess you're not missing out. Enjoy.
 
I just recently went back to the Ultra from the II, it works better for me and the sound I'm going for. I had a Standard before the Ultra even existed, got the Ultra when it came out, got the II when it came out. l've worked with the II from FW 3 on up to 9.2 and never felt as satisfied with my sound as I did with the Ultra/Standard. It's not that the II is bad, in fact in many ways it's a huge improvement over the Ultra/Standard......but the amp modeling in the Ultra/Standard just fits better with what I want to hear and feel. Things like the compression control, the dynamics stuff and pick attack all seem to take the sound and feel further away from what I want and expect from an amp. So as of now the direction of the II just isn't right for me, I'm hearing and feeling things in a different way than Cliff is at the moment.......not better or worse, just different. If I could have the amp modeling of the Ultra in the II box with all the other II features I would be the happiest guy in the world. For now though I'm happy to use the Ultra and have the sound that I want. To be fair I've heard many people using the II and getting excellent results, the other guitar player in my band uses the II and I'm very happy with his sound. I could easily see myself with a II again one day, I think it's a great product and hopefully one day it will replace the things that I love about the Ultra.

And no, tone matching doesn't help. I got my main Ultra sound matched into the II and it still wasn't the same.
 
I realized my main point was very unclear. My point was that the Axe-Fx (both gen1 and gen2) are tools to create good tones. Getting either of the units will not guarantee you a good tone. It's up to you to find a way to get the full potential out of the unit. So if we compare:

A) Person with Axe-II but no tweaking skills
B) Person with Axe-II but weak playing technique
C) Person with Axe-II but wrong IR
D) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx and great tweaking skills, great technique and great IRs.

The D person will most likely kill all the above. Ofcourse there's a person E) with Axe-II and great tweaking skills, great technique and great IRs. However I do feel like if you know how to tweak you can make both sound equally good. And although many people say that it was easier to tweak a patch on the II, I must say it's all about how well you know the unit. F.ex. I believe I can create an "impressive" Axe-Fx Ultra patch in under 2 minutes.

We have to consider the fact that our thoughts are being affected by prejudice. "This unit has twice the power of the other unit." Knowing that will make people automatically think it's better. Psychology. Just like whenever a bass player tells me to turn his bass up, I tell him I raised him up although I didn't and they get fooled.... then again they are just bass players. ;) :lol
 
Everytime I get new equipment, I try to make it sound the way the old sounded. EVERYTIME.

We are definitely creatures of habit aren't we? We spend countless hours trying to dial in tones that are (ironically) rooted in obsolete technologies, just because that is what we know, or grew up with, or are comfortable with. (Back then they were all cutting edge - tubes, transisters, paper cones, precision-built transformers, etc, etc.)

My two cents if the sky is parting... stick with what you love... i.e. your Ultra. It was great then, and it's still great now. Life is good my friend!
 
We are definitely creatures of habit aren't we? We spend countless hours trying to dial in tones that are (ironically) rooted in obsolete technologies, just because that is what we know, or grew up with, or are comfortable with. (Back then they were all cutting edge - tubes, transisters, paper cones, precision-built transformers, etc, etc.)
^+1
My two cents if the sky is parting... stick with what you love... i.e. your Ultra. It was great then, and it's still great now. Life is good my friend!
Exactly for me the II was never about getting it because of double the power,sure that is a great selling point but to me I feel benefited in terms of work flow
with the unit. I am quiet happy with it and if people love their Ultra they should stick to it. There is no right and wrong here :)
 
I realized my main point was very unclear. My point was that the Axe-Fx (both gen1 and gen2) are tools to create good tones. Getting either of the units will not guarantee you a good tone. It's up to you to find a way to get the full potential out of the unit. So if we compare:

A) Person with Axe-II but no tweaking skills
B) Person with Axe-II but weak playing technique
C) Person with Axe-II but wrong IR
D) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx and great tweaking skills, great technique and great IRs.

The D person will most likely kill all the above. Ofcourse there's a person E) with Axe-II and great tweaking skills, great technique and great IRs. However I do feel like if you know how to tweak you can make both sound equally good. And although many people say that it was easier to tweak a patch on the II, I must say it's all about how well you know the unit. F.ex. I believe I can create an "impressive" Axe-Fx Ultra patch in under 2 minutes.

There is also F and G and H

F) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but no tweaking skills
G) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but weak playing technique
H) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but wrong IR

I class myself as A,B and C at the moment but everyone has to start somewhere, that said there are also people with earlier models who will be in the same boat.
 
I never bonded with either Ultra I owned. It took me a year to dial in the II, and it required Mark Day's and Fremen's presets to finally discover the secrets I was missing. As the firmwares have updated on the II, the sound has changed a lot, which has in turn required more time to dial in. Since I'm all in, sold everything but my Axe, I decided to get a spare II. Not only do I have insurance in the even of a breakdown, but I dial in the spare after FW updates without fears of messing with my main unit.
 
There is also F and G and H

F) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but no tweaking skills
G) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but weak playing technique
H) Person with gen1 Axe-Fx but wrong IR

I class myself as A,B and C at the moment but everyone has to start somewhere, that said there are also people with earlier models who will be in the same boat.

Exactly. Understanding what a good guitar tone is (and mostly why it's good) will probably take years for most people to understand. I'm not saying that I'm pro at it but I've never had problems with getting the tone I want and people do like my patches.

You can get a nice sounding balanced tone easily with any amp sim. If the IR is bad... there's not much you can do. IMO the best stock IRs for both units are Recto 2, Cali, German and maybe Metal and mic on NONE.

I don't get why people are obsessed with presets/patches. The amp EQ balance should be tweaked according to your playing. F.ex. I pick hard as hell which means I won't have a lot of bass or presence in my presets. My tones are mid-based. But if you don't play as hard as I do I bet you feel like the patch is stiff and muddy. And after that the amp EQ depends on the guitar a whole lot.

You need to get a balanced tone EQ-wise and this depends on the IR a whole lot. Still I've NEVER used PEQ or GEQ in my patches. Only for Mesa Mark IV presets at first. Basically what I do is start with gain on full and try to make the tone work somehow with only using bass, middle, treble and presence. I measure bass by chugging and lowering it until "treble wins"... meaning that bass won't sustain over high notes. Then I try to get the brightness right with just treble and on some amps I use presence but usually I leave it noon. Then I lower the gain to where the low end becomes tight instead of that muff thing. Here are a few examples of what kind of tones I get this way:




I've been planning to make a YouTube tutorial on all the details and tips I've got since there are quite many requests. :)
 
I've been planning to make a YouTube tutorial on all the details and tips I've got since there are quite many requests. :)

Bring it on! Always happy to learn some new stuff. Please include amp/cab selection, MV/gain setup, Enveloppe trick, Ozone matching, Gate/limiter setup (dynamics), MBC setup (dynamics).

Grz
 
Back to the OP. I was better at creating sounds with my old system POD HD500 with an M13 in the effects loop. Key point of that phrase: I was better. I was more familiar with that old rig after having it for several years, than I was at the Axe FX II after 30 days. When I listen to recordings of me playing with my old rig, and compare them to the first patches I made with the Axe, the POD stuff sounds better and more mature to me.

Again, the difference is my familiarity with it. I don't know how to fly, but I imagine I could take the controls over from a Cessna fixed wing and fly straight and level, and maybe even turn a little to the left and right, better, than I could do that in an F22 fighter jet. The reason is that the fighter is more complex than the Cessna, and therefore easier to screw up if you are inexperienced.

I've actually gotten some really awesomely bad sounds out of my Axe along the learning curve. Things I worked on for hours, and saved, and then listened to them the next day and had to ask myself "what were you thinking?" With fresh ears, I could tell I chased something down a rabbit hole, and it just didn't work. It was the complexity that gave me too many options. Options are great in experienced hands, and a death trap in a novice' hands.

I'm getting stronger at programming, because of my length of ownership, and believe it or not, because I have had to use the front panel over the past 5-6 months.

Fight through the buyer's remorse. I would expect the Ultra and II to sound differently. Maybe tone matching could match them, but then again, I think that would be defeating the purpose. Keep working at creating "more awesome" tones from the Axe than what you could achieve with the Ultra - I believe they are in there.

Good luck and happy tweaking.
 
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