Building a better tube amp...in software.

[Zelja]

Hi guys. Long time lurker, first time poster.

Something I have had in my mind for a while was mentioned by GM Arts & Stratoblaster in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10977&start=50

Namely the possibility of building an amp in software which is not possible and/or practical with actual electronic components.

Any possibility of getting the pre-eminent tube amp designers together (not just the ones that re-hash old 50 year old circuits) to come up with a super-duper design? One which is not bound by practical considerations which could be holding back the design in hardware form? Get Fractal to implement it in software & voila!

I know there are some issues with this concept i.e. the "perfect amp" will be different for different people etc.

If it was done it may not necessarily conform to the standard AxeFX platform - menus, knobs, parameters may be different etc.

Has Cliff already done something like this with the FAS models?

Is there anything to be gained by this or could you get the same result from playing with parameters on existing models?

What do you Axeperts think?

 

[mworkman]

Its an interesting topic.

I've had kind of a similar discussion with a guy that I take lessons from.

Ask yourself what would you want this new amp to sound like?

I think most people would say either Marshall, Fender, Vox or Mesa. Aren't those models - as old as those circuit designs maybe - what people are after?

Thats kind of the discussion I have with the guy that I take lessons from. How many pedals are out there that are different takes on the tube screamer? Its like nothing is new, really just a variation on the original stuff.

So if you were to build a better amp (in software) what would it sound like? I would guess - and its just a guess - that if it doesn't sound like one of the original/classic amps I don't think people would adopt it because that can't relate it back to some "reference" tone they have in their head.

 

[knoll]

I think FAS models are modified versions from "original" amp models. Cliff may have taken preamp of one amp and combine it with power amp of another amp, or more likely he may have modified one section, even one component, in preamp or in power amp to take a amp on a whole new level where he think it sounds better.

Cliff how about adding a model of MkII+ preamp combined with the power amp of JCM800 for all 'tallica fans :twisted:

 

[dk_ace]

I don't know about all the FAS models, but Cliff has said that one of them does some things that are impossible in a real amp. I don't remember which FAS model it was, but it wasn't very long ago so you could probably find it searching through his posts.

D

 

[logicroxx]

While I don't doubt that a specific model was designed with that in mind, you really can make any of the amps do impossible things. Altering the tonestack type will give you hybrid amp sounds that are mostly unheard of. Of course if you're just looking to push the envelope, you could always crank the power tube bias to the point of what would be a real life tube meltdown

 

[electronpirate]

From what I've seen, I'm not sure using the word 'impossible' in a tube amp design is accurate. Cliff's models do MORE than the original design, but I always felt like an amp builder could DO it. But why? The box might have more knobs than an Airline cockpit.

The FAS models are not radically away from any other design, but variations on those particular amps/styles that are pleasing to Cliff's ear.

IMO Cliff has created a better tube amp in software.

Ron

 

[dk_ace]

However, many of the FAS custom models are idealized. They use frequency shaping that would be impossible (or at least cost-prohibitive) in a real tube amp. FAS Modern is a good example. It uses several 2nd-order filters to shape the response whereas 2nd-order filters are unheard of in tube amps.

D

 

[Zelja]

However, many of the FAS custom models are idealized. They use frequency shaping that would be impossible (or at least cost-prohibitive) in a real tube amp. FAS Modern is a good example. It uses several 2nd-order filters to shape the response whereas 2nd-order filters are unheard of in tube amps.

D

Hey, thanks for finding that. That's the sort of thing I was looking for, but also the possibility of stretching the boundaries even more, if it was worth it.

 

[Zelja]

From what I've seen, I'm not sure using the word 'impossible' in a tube amp design is accurate. Cliff's models do MORE than the original design, but I always felt like an amp builder could DO it. But why? The box might have more knobs than an Airline cockpit.

The FAS models are not radically away from any other design, but variations on those particular amps/styles that are pleasing to Cliff's ear.

IMO Cliff has created a better tube amp in software.

Ron

Agreed, both with all the parameters available to be changed and also with the FAS models as mentioned above.

I was just looking at the theoretically possibilities for more way out designs, like, I dunno, having 8 gain stages in a row, but setup with different plate voltages & biasing, such that each stage causes only mild clipping of the previous stage, or just assymetrical clipping in one direction in alternative stages etc. Or some other weirdness, as long as it sounds great, of course.

Maybe some designer has got something in his head which would be fantastic but can't make it work for practical reasons but maybe it can be done in software.

Also, the concept can be used for going beyond standard amp sounds (although the AxeFX already does that to an extent).

 

[mtlin]

One example of what we are discussing is lowering B+ capacitance all the way. I sometimes lurk in amp building forums even though I've never built an amp. Everyone is always trying to filter the B+ voltage as little as possible and still avoid ghost notes and other unwanted artifacts. Well the AFX this is a non-issue and you can turn the B+ capacitance all the way off with no ill effects. Sounds really good on some models too!

 

[chase]

One example of what we are discussing is lowering B+ capacitance all the way. I sometimes lurk in amp building forums even though I've never built an amp. Everyone is always trying to filter the B+ voltage as little as possible and still avoid ghost notes and other unwanted artifacts. Well the AFX this is a non-issue and you can turn the B+ capacitance all the way off with no ill effects. Sounds really good on some models too!

Hmmm, interesting tip, thanks! Have to give that a try...