Bug? Stand-In Switch Behavior with Tap + Hold

[unix-guy]

I was trying to add a Hold function to one of my already functioning Stand-In switches.

The Tap function is a Channel Increment on Delay 1 that rolls thru all channels and wraps around.

I was trying to add a Hold function to Bypass Delay 1.

Once I add the Hold function everything goes sideways. Tapping the switch performs the Bypass on Delay 1 which should happen on Hold. Tapping again Enables the Delay.

The Hold function doesn't seem to do anything at first, but I realized that after a Hold the next Tap now does the expected operation of incrementing the Delay 1 channel.

The next Tap is back to Bypass.

I tried this on all 3 pedal jacks with 3 different physical switches (all identically wired). The switches are normally closed momentary switches.

Different variations or the same setup on all 3... As soon as I add the Hold it goes pear-shaped

@Joe Bfstplk - not sure if this is the same issue you mentioned a couple weeks back? I think in your case pedal jack 1 behaved differently?

 

[moerker]

I had a similar problem when adding a tuner to either Tap or Hold - it basically overrode the other switch function.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I was trying to add a Hold function to one of my already functioning Stand-In switches.

The Tap function is a Channel Increment on Delay 1 that rolls thru all channels and wraps around.

I was trying to add a Hold function to Bypass Delay 1.

Once I add the Hold function everything goes sideways. Tapping the switch performs the Bypass on Delay 1 which should happen on Hold. Tapping again Enables the Delay.

The Hold function doesn't seem to do anything at first, but I realized that after a Hold the next Tap now does the expected operation of incrementing the Delay 1 channel.

The next Tap is back to Bypass.

I tried this on all 3 pedal jacks with 3 different physical switches (all identically wired). The switches are normally closed momentary switches.

Different variations or the same setup on all 3... As soon as I add the Hold it goes pear-shaped

@Joe Bfstplk - not sure if this is the same issue you mentioned a couple weeks back? I think in your case pedal jack 1 behaved differently?

My Pedal #1 jack worked as expected with the switches plugged into it. The software polarity settings for (Normally) Closed and (Normally) Open switches worked great. #2 and #3 did not. The fact that one worked and the other two did not tells me it has a firmware bug in that area and I have faith that 1.01 will have a fix for it.

 

[unix-guy]

My Pedal #1 jack worked as expected with the switches plugged into it. The software polarity settings for (Normally) Closed and (Normally) Open switches worked great. #2 and #3 did not. The fact that one worked and the other two did not tells me it has a firmware bug in that area and I have faith that 1.01 will have a fix for it.

So are you able to add a Tap and Hold using a NC switch with pedal jack 1?

Interestingly, I don't find any differences in switch behavior when changing the settings from Open to Closed. My switches work (or don't) the same in either setting as far as I can tell.

Is there a particular behavior when the setting is wrong?

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

So are you able to add a Tap and Hold using a NC switch with pedal jack 1?

Haven't tried that yet, as I have my fader controller in there. Will give it a poke later on, after getting some stuff the OL wants done done.

Interestingly, I don't find any differences in switch behavior when changing the settings from Open to Closed. My switches work (or don't) the same in either setting as far as I can tell.

That was my experience with #2 and #3, but #1 worked as expected, and changed the way the switch was handled to work with open or closed type switches. It's in there, but something's not quite connecting yet with the current firmware.

Been spending a lot of time going through and cleaning up split presets from the FX3 on both the FM9 and FM3 sides, so haven't been playing much guitar or poking at anything else for the past week or two. Lots of leftover PPOs in both halves of the split presets to clean up, as well as a lot of small improvements to control of things that was made possible by the splitting of the presets. Gotta also start spending more time on maintaining the bonemech/meatarmor that I ride around in, too. The ol' check engine light's on....

 

[bleujazz3]

I was trying to add a Hold function to one of my already functioning Stand-In switches.

The Tap function is a Channel Increment on Delay 1 that rolls thru all channels and wraps around.

I was trying to add a Hold function to Bypass Delay 1.

Once I add the Hold function everything goes sideways. Tapping the switch performs the Bypass on Delay 1 which should happen on Hold. Tapping again Enables the Delay.

The Hold function doesn't seem to do anything at first, but I realized that after a Hold the next Tap now does the expected operation of incrementing the Delay 1 channel.

The next Tap is back to Bypass.

I tried this on all 3 pedal jacks with 3 different physical switches (all identically wired). The switches are normally closed momentary switches.

Different variations or the same setup on all 3... As soon as I add the Hold it goes pear-shaped

@Joe Bfstplk - not sure if this is the same issue you mentioned a couple weeks back? I think in your case pedal jack 1 behaved differently?

@unix-guy:
What type of switch are you using, a momentary normally closed, or momentary normally open? You may need to reverse the polarity and see what happens.

And yes, according to folks who posted about this before, polarity plays a huge factor.

 

[unix-guy]

What type of switch are you using, a momentary normally closed, or momentary normally open?

From my OP:

The switches are normally closed momentary switches.

You may need to reverse the polarity and see what happens.

I have tried that with no change in behavior, which is why I made the comment:

Interestingly, I don't find any differences in switch behavior when changing the settings from Open to Closed. My switches work (or don't) the same in either setting as far as I can tell.

I will double check that specifically for jack #1 based on the comment above from @Joe Bfstplk.

 

[bleujazz3]

OK. I must have missed seeing the part about what type of switch you were using. Am surprised no difference occurs when switching from open to closed.

Is there a possible separate function other than switching polarity that might affect the behavior? If it were me, I'd ask @FractalAudio tech support...then you can tell us what you've discovered...

IIRC, PDL #1 jack should have no issues whatsoever with tap/hold. It's the PDL #2 & #3 jacks that need FW updates.

 

[Dave Merrill]

Haven't tried that yet, as I have my fader controller in there. Will give it a poke later on, after getting some stuff the OL wants done done.



That was my experience with #2 and #3, but #1 worked as expected, and changed the way the switch was handled to work with open or closed type switches. It's in there, but something's not quite connecting yet with the current firmware.

Been spending a lot of time going through and cleaning up split presets from the FX3 on both the FM9 and FM3 sides, so haven't been playing much guitar or poking at anything else for the past week or two. Lots of leftover PPOs in both halves of the split presets to clean up, as well as a lot of small improvements to control of things that was made possible by the splitting of the presets. Gotta also start spending more time on maintaining the bonemech/meatarmor that I ride around in, too. The ol' check engine light's on....

Gotta heed those bio-warnings when you gotta. Take care of yourself my friend

Unless I'm completely misinterpreting your post...

 

[unix-guy]

OK. I must have missed seeing the part about what type of switch you were using. Am surprised no difference occurs when switching from open to closed.

Is there a possible separate function other than switching polarity that might affect the behavior? If it were me, I'd ask @FractalAudio tech support...then you can tell us what you've discovered...

IIRC, PDL #1 jack should have no issues whatsoever with tap/hold. It's the PDL #2 & #3 jacks that need FW updates.

Rather than tagging Cliff, I created this bug thread... Usually that's enough to raise the issue.

As I've said already, the same issue occurs for me on all pedal jacks, so it doesn't appear that jack #1 is excluded from this... But I want to retest because I don't remember if I tried the polarity change on that one.

However, all three switches are set to Closed and all of them are identical NC switches, so it's not likely to be fixed by changing a setting.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Gotta heed those bio-warnings when you gotta. Take care of yourself my friend

Unless I'm completely misinterpreting your post...

Yup. Need to move around and do things away from the screen. And other people. I hate shopping. And traffic. And going through traffic to go shopping around other people....

 

[Dave Merrill]

Yup. Need to move around and do things away from the screen. And other people. I hate shopping. And traffic. And going through traffic to go shopping around other people....

10-4. I've gotten into a rhythm of a 3 mile fast-ish walk pretty much every day. For me anyway, beats not doing that by a lot. This is my favorite season, really like getting out in it.

(Also trying not to eat when I don't need to eat, which is going medium, but I've dropped 25 pounds, which also for me beats not doing that by a lot. Ideally I have a long ways to go in that department, but progress is progress.)

I don't go shopping much, thankfully, and rarely do malls and such at all. I work at home, so I don't have to people too much.

I hope you can find ways to get back to a pattern of days that feels ok.

 

[unix-guy]

Ok... This is definitely an issue with Normally Closed switches.

Hooking up another switch I happened to have laying around that just happens to be Normally Open works as expected for me with Tap+Hold on ALL pedal jacks when set to either Open or Closed.

 

[lauke-lux]

Ok... This is definitely an issue with Normally Closed switches.

Hooking up another switch I happened to have laying around that just happens to be Normally Open works as expected for me with Tap+Hold on ALL pedal jacks when set to either Open or Closed.

Dunno, I use a NO switch in EXT2 on my FM3 to switch my exp Pedal on EXT1 between Wah/Vol. Whatever I parameter the switch or the on/of behaviour : when I turn on my FM3 it always starts with wah ON. At patch change this seems aleatory; need to dig more.

 

[unix-guy]

Dunno, I use a NO switch in EXT2 on my FM3 to switch my exp Pedal on EXT1 between Wah/Vol. Whatever I parameter the switch or the on/of behaviour : when I turn on my FM3 it always starts with wah ON. At patch change this seems aleatory; need to dig more.

FM9 pedal jacks are different than FM3 and FCs. They only support single switches...

There is also another bug I raised where changing the value for Switch Behavior on either jack 2 or 3 also changes the other jack:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-3-jacks-acting-strangely.177298/post-2160715

I think your issue might be different. Have you tried changing PC Reset or External Controller Initial Value? Or saved the preset with Wah off?

 

[lauke-lux]

FM9 pedal jacks are different than FM3 and FCs. They only support single switches...

There is also another bug I raised where changing the value for Switch Behavior on either jack 2 or 3 also changes the other jack:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-3-jacks-acting-strangely.177298/post-2160715

I think your issue might be different. Have you tried changing PC Reset or External Controller Initial Value? Or saved the preset with Wah off?

Thanks a lot, it was 2 things first of all I treated the input switch as a NC contact Wah engage and Volume engage so had to inverse this. Was correctly parametered though at the I/O menu. Hence there was this PCreset off that I never really had to use before as I used a dedictad exp pedal for wah. Now wih PCreset on it works flawless. Thanks again.

 

[bleujazz3]

Just thought to give you folks a heads-up regards any FASLink connections you might make with MIDI controllers...according to pg 21 of RTFM FM9, FASLink XLR ports are compatible only with FC6/FC12 units. MFC-101 controllers will not work with the FM9. Not sure this might apply to 3rd party MIDI controllers. Use the proprietary MIDI IN ports on the FM9 for any MIDI devices.

 

[unix-guy]

Just thought to give you folks a heads-up regards any FASLink connections you might make with MIDI controllers...according to pg 21 of RTFM FM9, FASLink XLR ports are compatible only with FC6/FC12 units. MFC-101 controllers will not work with the FM9. Not sure this might apply to 3rd party MIDI controllers. Use the proprietary MIDI IN ports on the FM9 for any MIDI devices.

The FM9, Axe Fx III and FM3 use FASLink2 and the MFC-101 uses FASLink (1).

No other midi controllers use FASLink of any sort since it's proprietary.

However, I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread? You can only use stand-in switches with the jacks on the FM9, Axe Fx III, FM3 and FCs, not via midi.

 

[bleujazz3]

The FM9, Axe Fx III and FM3 use FASLink2 and the MFC-101 uses FASLink (1).

No other midi controllers use FASLink of any sort since it's proprietary.

However, I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread? You can only use stand-in switches with the jacks on the FM9, Axe Fx III, FM3 and FCs, not via midi.

IIRC, @Joe Bfstplk had said he had experienced some issues with his MIDI controller and I'd been reading the FM9 manual and chanced across a red-inked disclaimer about the FASLink II port. The manual didn't mention FASLInk I, which obviously went over my head when it said MFC-101s weren't compatible.

 

[unix-guy]

IIRC, @Joe Bfstplk had said he had experienced some issues with his MIDI controller and I'd been reading the FM9 manual and chanced across a red-inked disclaimer about the FASLink II port. The manual didn't mention FASLInk I, which obviously went over my head when it said MFC-101s weren't compatible.

I'm pretty sure he's only using FCs, not midi controllers...

I guess if you are new to Fractal you would know about FASLink 1