[Model change] Mesa Subway Blues very different in Ares 15.01 vs. Cygnus 16.00

[yyz67]

I absolutely loved the Subway Blues as a clean/EOB amp in Ares. However, I've noticed a rather dramatic change in tone that to my ears sounds boxy and congested in Cygnus both without and with reseting the amp.

To "debug" if what I'm hearing is real, I made a preset with pink noise going into (reset) Subway Blues amp (no cab) in both 15.01 and 16.00 and grabbed RTAs of each shown below. Clearly the frequency response of 15.01 is much wider than 16.00 with significantly more energy in both bass and treble. Preset attached as well.

@FractalAudio, I know amps are expected to change to varying degrees between Ares and Cygnus, but can validate if this amp is correct in Cygnus?

15.01:


16.00:

 

[boyce89976]

Have you checked all the cuts and preamp/power amp frequency response settings to make sure they are the same in both FW versions?

 

[yyz67]

@boyce89976, I can double check the actual settings, but I did the pink noise exercise both before and after amp resets with similar results.

EDIT: All the main EQ settings appear the same between 15 and 16 (after resets). I didn't check all the advanced parameters.

 

[yyz67]

Using the same pink noise method I checked a different favorite amp Band Commander in Ares and Cygnus. The frequency distributions are pretty similar (within pink noise variations). If anything Cygnus slightly little more bass/sub-bass response.

Band-Commander 15.01:


Band-Commander 16.00:

 

[FractalAudio]

The Subway Blues model was completely redone. It will likely sound different than before. If you don't like the new model you can roll back to earlier firmware.

 

[yyz67]

Got it, thanks.

Just curious as it sounds like an entirely different animal with very different frequency response per RTAs in OP (highs rolled off like guitar tone turned all the way down).

 

[Chris Hurley]

The Subway Blues model was completely redone. It will likely sound different than before. If you don't like the new model you can roll back to earlier firmware.

I'm sure it gets aggravating fielding these kinds of questions.

Now that he knows the model isn't broken, he's probably more likely going to want to know how to get the sounds he loves rather than to just pull off to the side of the road and throw his keys in the lake. Maybe someone who loves that kind of amp and/or the model can help him figure out how to get there. Or maybe he knows how and just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bug.

 

[johnnypig]

Got it, thanks.

Just curious as it sounds like an entirely different animal with very different frequency response per RTAs in OP (highs rolled off like guitar tone turned all the way down).

I've never tried this model and it certainly is wooly but turning the mid knob down opened it up. I'd guess the model is the fat input not the bright

 

[skunc]

you could always spend a few minutes and tweak 16.00 until it sounds like 15.00 and enjoy!

 

[johnnypig]

@yyz67 I've had a bit of fun with this strange amp. The bass control is almost like a wah pedal and the mid is like a second gain control.
Snappy and fun after some tweeks. You could go down the tonestack rabbit hole if you have an itch that severe.
Hopefully this helps you some!

 

[yyz67]

Thanks guys.

Yeah maybe it's now the fat circuit while before it was the bright circuit. If so, I wouldn't mind both in there!

I did fiddle with different tone stacks (and turned down the mid dial) last week which seemed to open it up a bit. It also might simply be a different animal.

@johnnypig I'll check out your preset when I get a chance.

 

[paulmapp8306]

That amp in reality is rather boxy in general characters if I recall (must be 20 years since I played one).

 

[yek]

Never cared much about the USA Sub Blues model, but I really like it now for its intended use. It's bold.

I'd like to know if the amplifier was modeled using its FAT input, and if not, if the FAT switch simulates the amplifier's FAT input.

 

[FractalAudio]

Never cared much about the USA Sub Blues model, but I really like it now for its intended use. It's bold.

I'd like to know if the amplifier was modeled using its FAT input, and if not, if the FAT switch simulates the amplifier's FAT input.

The reference amp is the later, single input version. The Fat switch replicates the amp's Fat switch.

 

[johnnypig]

@yek It's definitely a strange amp but it has that Mesa signature low-mid growl thing. I like it a lot.
Anyone reading: it's a Mesa, so turn the mid knob down.

 

[yyz67]

In regards to Cliff changing models out rather than adding new ones (like the Subway Blues), I wonder if he's trying to keep the total number of amps from growing without limit. I still loved the previous one but can adapt or move on.