BUG: Audible pop when Scene controllers change AMP settings

Smittefar

Axe-Master
I showed it in this post http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/tips-for-dealing-with-the-audio-drop-out.112699/#post-1354049

I wanted to show the awesomeness of scene controllers - only to discover that they made a big pop, when switching from drive to clean
SCaudiodropout.jpg


Here is the mp3 (do not listen loud, the 'pop' is loud - first clip is amp X/Y switching (using scenes disengaging chorus and compressor while engaging the drive block), second clip is amp Y with scene controllers (disengaging/engaging same blocks as before)


Preset is attached
 

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it's more a "burst" of sound, rather than a pop i'd say.

it sounds like some change is happening faster than other changes. like the compressor is on during the change boosting that volume for a bit, then turning off as it should. maybe Scene Controllers work faster/slower than other regular changes?
 
I agree, it could very well be different things happening in different order. The level parameter in the CAB block is also attached to Scene controller 1 with a 15 dB boost (because I cannot attach a scene controller to the level param in the AMP block)

Still, I think it is a bug, and I would love to see it fixed. Otherwise scene controllers become less powerful in fixing the audio gap issues that some people have.
 
Any word from Fractal on this issue yet?
It's easy to imagine that it's an easy fix in the code, but also easy to imagine it's unfixable...
 
I can't reproduce the problem with your preset loaded into my AX8.
 
Ahh - Then it might have been fixed for the upcoming beta - one hopes

My demonstration was done on FW2.xx
 
I agree, it could very well be different things happening in different order. The level parameter in the CAB block is also attached to Scene controller 1 with a 15 dB boost (because I cannot attach a scene controller to the level param in the AMP block)

Still, I think it is a bug, and I would love to see it fixed. Otherwise scene controllers become less powerful in fixing the audio gap issues that some people have.

That might be the culprit right there. I remember having an issue with that with a preset that I built in my Axe FX that had the same problem.
 
That is certainly the origin of the burst - But when I go from drive to clean using scene controllers, I need to increase the level by that amount in order to have the same perceived loudness at both levels of drive.
 
That is certainly the origin of the burst - But when I go from drive to clean using scene controllers, I need to increase the level by that amount in order to have the same perceived loudness at both levels of drive.

Totally agree!, thats is why I had done the same thing in the preset that I had built in the Axe FX, in the end I abandoned that idea I don't quite remember what I came up for the work around as it was 4-5 years ago if I recall.

This is the main reason for using the clean tones for setting up your primary volume levels then building your ditrie tones to match!
 
Have you tried adjusting the level in the main output block instead?
No, but that would be a workaround at best. If I change the master volume in the output block, any delay trails will get boosted 15dB when going from dirt to clean, and that is just weird.
 
Have you tried adjusting the level in the main output block instead?

I'm having the exact same problem as Smittefar, and it makes my patches unusable for live use.

I have tried using the main output block level per scene to fix this problem, but the problem still exists.
It just seems like the modifier transition is the last thing that happens when scenes switch, so for a short time you can hear what your scene would sound like with no modifier before it kicks in.

EDIT: More accurately, it seems (while looking at the mod curve graph) that, regardless of how you set the slope, there is a built in delay in the modifier curve, presumably it's on purpose, although I don't understand that purpose. But I would really like an update to change it so that the modifier curve can be both instant, and immediate... that sounds stupid but if you mess with the modifier window in ax8edit, it might make sense.
 
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No, but that would be a workaround at best. If I change the master volume in the output block, any delay trails will get boosted 15dB when going from dirt to clean, and that is just weird.

Agreed. My scenes are only a few dB different so I don't experience that.
 
That's true. It's called the DAMP parameter and it is adjustable.

No that's not what I mean.
With DAMP at zero, it's still there.
I'm talking about the inability to set the graph in a way that is both a vertical line (instant transition time) and also have that line be right up against the edge of the graph (transition starts immediately). Or any other setup using the slope.

Please try it yourself when you get a chance, since everyone just keeps suggesting damping time, maybe there is something wrong with my ax8edit....
 
No that's not what I mean.
With DAMP at zero, it's still there.
I'm talking about the inability to set the graph in a way that is both a vertical line (instant transition time) and also have that line be right up against the edge of the graph (transition starts immediately). Or any other setup using the slope.

Please try it yourself when you get a chance, since everyone just keeps suggesting damping time, maybe there is something wrong with my ax8edit....

The graph / modifier curve has no impact on the timing. It shows the relationship between the source (the scene controller in this case) and the target parameter. The x-axis (horizontal) is the source, not the time. With an expression pedal, the time is completely manual. With an on/off controller, you can control the timing with the DAMPING parameter. With DAMPING at 0, even with the default linear curve the change should be instant. Try this with an external switch instead of a scene controller. Via your ears - you'll notice it is instant (pause AX8-Edit for the test). The visual in AX8-Edit would be delayed due to synching and minor inherent USB MIDI latency. I will test with a scene controller tonight on a few different parameters to see which if any are not changing instantly.

Most of this is a wash since the "burst" described in the OP has apparently been solved in the pending update (related to a bug when attaching a modifier to Input Gain, as mentioned by Joe in your other thread).
 
The graph / modifier curve has no impact on the timing. It shows the relationship between the source (the scene controller in this case) and the target parameter. The x-axis (horizontal) is the source, not the time. With an expression pedal, the time is completely manual. With an on/off controller, you can control the timing with the DAMPING parameter. With DAMPING at 0, even with the default linear curve the change should be instant. Try this with an external switch instead of a scene controller. Via your ears - you'll notice it is instant (pause AX8-Edit for the test). The visual in AX8-Edit would be delayed due to synching and minor inherent USB MIDI latency. I will test with a scene controller tonight on a few different parameters to see which if any are not changing instantly.

Thanks for the in-depth reply!

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out I indeed have a completely incorrect idea of the Modifier graph.
Well, since all that apparently irrelevant now, then I guess it must be a bug because setting Damp to zero was the first thing I did when attaching the Modifier.

I unfortunately don't have access to an external pedal at the moment, but it sounds like my best bet is to sit tight until the next update and see if it's fixed.

I guess I'll be dusting off my good old tube amp for my upcoming show ;)

Thanks again.
 
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