Wish Boss CE1

[Chiguete]

it might be triangle, the TC dude explains that a triangle wave would make that same sound as a square wave if it's attached to delay time, since it only changes the delay time at the top most and lower most peaks of the waveform, since the slope is smooth in between the delay time doens't change or something, the audible effect sounds just like a square wave, alternating basically between two pitches

WOW that's an awesome video! I must check the hole video now

 

[Chiguete]

No insult intended, but I don't think you quite understand how a chorus works. A chorus is a delay where the actual delay time is always changing. The "delay time" parameter sets the minimum delay time (aka the the top of the sweep). The depth parameters sets the maximum delay time (aka the bottom of the sweep). Hooking up a LFO via a modifier to the "delay time" parameter is just a more complicated way to control the actual delay time. It's useful when you try and dial in an exact maximum delay time rather then using the depth parameter.

Thanks for clarifying that, what got me confused was how to set the depth to a value in ms like the delay time to go from the 3-5ms that the CE-1 is soppose to work in... so my only question is looking at the example that the Admin posted previewsly he goes for 80% of Depth, what is the formula to calculate how much is that in ms?

The volume block is for panning all the wet signal to one side of the stereo spectrum, and the dry to the other (left and right). Matt did find another way to did it within the chorus block though.

Can you explain that? I want to make sure I understand what he did in his screenshot of the dual chorus block... remember that I still don't have an Axe3 or FM3 to experiment myself so I'm just trying to understand this before I do the upgrade from my AX8.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Thanks for clarifying that, what got me confused was how to set the depth to a value in ms like the delay time to go from the 3-5ms that the CE-1 is soppose to work in... so my only question is looking at the example that the Admin posted previewsly he goes for 80% of Depth, what is the formula to calculate how much is that in ms?


Can you explain that? I want to make sure I understand what he did in his screenshot of the dual chorus block... remember that I still don't have an Axe3 or FM3 to experiment myself so I'm just trying to understand this before I do the upgrade from my AX8.

Well, 80% really doesn't mean anything. Does he have auto depth on or not? That makes a huge difference. And if it's on, the depth scales with rate. There is no formula. Use your ears, or copy his settings and measure it in a DAW.

I'm his picture, he uses only the left side of a stereo chorus (no depth on the right side), and fully wet (100% mix). This would yield chorus to the left, dry on the right.

I promise you, all this will become much easier to understand when you get to try it out for yourself. There is a healthy dose of "learn by doing" when it comes to this stuff. Twiddle those knobs and see what happens

 

[Chiguete]

Well, 80% really doesn't mean anything. Does he auto depth on or not? That makes a huge difference. And if it's on, the depth scales with rate. There is no formula. Use your ears, or copy his settings and measure it in a DAW.

I'm his picture, he uses only the left side of a stereo chorus (no depth on the right side), and fully wet (100% mix). This would yield chorus to the left, dry on the right.

I promise you, all this will become much easier to understand when you get to try it out for yourself. There is a healthy dose of "learn by doing" when it comes to this stuff. Twiddle those knobs and see what happens

Don't know how is the auto depth looking at that picture that he posted, I have for now an AX8 so I can't test that out my byself... BTW, didn't know that if you had the pepth at 0% that ment that the right side was dry.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Don't know how is the auto depth looking at that picture that he posted, I have for now an AX8 so I can't test that out my byself... BTW, didn't know that if you had the pepth at 0% that ment that the right side was dry.

That parameter might be on the tone page in the editor.

I don't know for sure that that's the case regarding his settings. That's the takeaway I got from it. Again, just try it when you get your unit.

 

[shatteredsquare]

Ok... Usually people mean "EQ" when they say "colour". Just wanted to check.

It is EQ, but the term "color" specified to refer to the equalization imparted on the signal inadvertently, from whatever circuitry components the pedal designer used. Unless you do a tone match you just have to earball it when the blocks just run the algorithm next to a generic slight overdrive circuit and some basic filters. If the device inputs and outputs (if the pedals in their entirety) were component modeled like the amp blocks are, you'd get that inherent coloration, if you wanted it.

 

[Jan Geerts]

It is EQ, but the term "color" specified to refer to the equalization imparted on the signal inadvertently, from whatever circuitry components the pedal designer used. Unless you do a tone match you just have to earball it when the blocks just run the algorithm next to a generic slight overdrive circuit and some basic filters. If the device inputs and outputs (if the pedals in their entirety) were component modeled like the amp blocks are, you'd get that inherent coloration, if you wanted it.

Just like with the EQ settings for the EP boost, there is something missing. I have an EP Boost here, and the FET and Eq presets sound different. I'm sure it is the same with the CE. Or can you recreate the SDD drive with an EQ block?

 

[2112]

Here's a tone match IR of my CE-1 preamp for anyone who wants it. I set the input level to just below where it started clipping, so it's not really doing a whole lot IMO. I don't find the clipping on the CE-1 very desirable but I can't imagine it would be hard to recreate with one of the drive blocks.

 

[reclavea]

Here's a tone match IR of my CE-1 preamp for anyone who wants it. I set the input level to just below where it started clipping, so it's not really doing a whole lot IMO. I don't find the clipping on the CE-1 very desirable but I can't imagine it would be hard to recreate with one of the drive blocks.

Awesome as always Leon

How would that ir be used in the grid? Imported into the chorus block?

Thanks!

 

[Admin M@]

Here's a tone match IR of my CE-1 preamp

Thanks for this.
One thing about using Tone Match to examine a preamp is that it misses any nonlinearity.

Still it is interesting to see what your match looks like (below).

As expected, it doesn't really excite me.

For me, the CE-1 is all about that wet/dry L/R split.

 

[FractalAudio]

A square wave LFO would produce no pitch change whatsoever. It would instantly alternate between two fixed delays. The guy in the cap knows what he is talking about, but his explanation is not clearly worded in parts.

The LFO in that video sounds to me like something between a sine and triangle; a triangle with smoother (rounder) transition points.

Mostly correct. The pitch shift is the derivative of the delay time. The derivative of a triangle wave is a square wave so the pitch will alternate between sharp and flat at the LFO rate.

The derivative of a square wave is an alternating impulse train so there would be infinite pitch shifts at the edges of the square wave. For this reason square waves are not used for chorus or flanger effects (normally). In practice you wouldn't get infinite shifts because the square wave won't be perfect, it will be bandwidth constrained and the VCO will also have it's own time constant limiting how fast the VCO frequency can change. Still, a square wave is a poor choice for a chorus.

Now most analog choruses use triangle waves but filter the waveform so that you don't get a rapid transition in pitch. Filtering a triangle wave makes it more like a sine wave.

IMO a sine wave is the best waveform for a chorus. The reason a triangle wave is used in analog choruses is that it's much easier to generate a triangle wave than a sine wave.

 

[unix-guy]

Awesome as always Leon

How would that ir be used in the grid? Imported into the chorus block?

Thanks!

It's an IR. It goes in a cab block or IR player block.

In this use case I would stick it in an IRP block right before the Chorus block.

 

[Jawoom]

As a chorus junkie and a new FM3 owner I am loving the discussion going on here. So much knowledge to sponge up. Nothing really to add here but I just want to say that I appreciate this thread and those who are contributing to it!

 

[steadystate]

Mostly correct. The pitch shift is the derivative of the delay time. The derivative of a triangle wave is a square wave so the pitch will alternate between sharp and flat at the LFO rate.

The derivative of a square wave is an alternating impulse train so there would be infinite pitch shifts at the edges of the square wave. For this reason square waves are not used for chorus or flanger effects (normally). In practice you wouldn't get infinite shifts because the square wave won't be perfect, it will be bandwidth constrained and the VCO will also have it's own time constant limiting how fast the VCO frequency can change. Still, a square wave is a poor choice for a chorus.

Now most analog choruses use triangle waves but filter the waveform so that you don't get a rapid transition in pitch. Filtering a triangle wave makes it more like a sine wave.

IMO a sine wave is the best waveform for a chorus. The reason a triangle wave is used in analog choruses is that it's much easier to generate a triangle wave than a sine wave.

I should have mentioned the real world bandwidth limitations. No such thing as instantly or infinite. What you get is two fixed delays with a glitch during the steep slope. I always wondered why there is a square option for the Chorus LFO in the Axe. It demonstrates this perfectly. Was it a 'why not?' decision, or is there an application for it that I don't see?

I like sine for vocals and solos, but for me, triangle is usually the best choice for chords or any source that's not supposed to be bending pitch. The sine lingers too long at the zero slope point with no pitch change, followed by a constantly changing amount of pitch shift.. It sounds like one virtual guy is bending his neck back and forth during the chord, while the other real guy isn't. What ever is used for the triangle in the Axe is perfect for chords, IMO.

The Alesis Quadraverb listed some LFO shapes by their derivative. Used to bug me, which I guess is why I commented in the first place.

 

[FractalAudio]

I should have mentioned the real world bandwidth limitations. No such thing as instantly or infinite. What you get is two fixed delays with a glitch during the steep slope. I always wondered why there is a square option for the Chorus LFO in the Axe. It demonstrates this perfectly. Was it a 'why not?' decision, or is there an application for it that I don't see?

LFOs are a class so the types get inherited.