Bogner 20th anniversary & Ecstasy 101 VS. Axe-Fx XL

Morphosis

Morphosis

Official G66 Support
The last three days i had a job as "Axe-Fx consultant" for a client, located in Austria. Beside the "consultant job" (Axe-Fx in-deep, re-creating a new working structure with MFC+Ground Control and a doubled backup-system, doing some "geeky" MFC, MIDI, Modifier & Axe-Fx programing to the individual needs of the client, etc. blahblah pp...) i had the opportunity to A/B the Axe-Fx vs. a real Bogner 20th anniversary + Bogner 4x12 & Bogner Ecstasy101 + BadCat 2x12" setup under DREAM conditions:

At his 400 people location a super high-end sound systems were installed: high-end D&B PA sound system controlled via an Digidesign Venue mixing console. Never heard the Axe-Fx through an high-fidelity PA at gig volume! It was AMAZING!!!!! Anyhow...

The Bogner & BadCat Cabs were miced isolated at the basement of the location. And they were miced by professionals, who did try different mics and all mic positions, till the sound was perfect at the gigging room through this high-end PA. They left with AKG C414 mic placements (a Neumann U87 Ai lay useless beside the cabs... :shock ). So: These two miced Bogner setups were established under MAXIMUM ideal conditions!!!! (COUNT THE $$$$ this real 2 Amp setup plus AKG C414 will you cost!!!!!)

So, the guy took his 10000€ (no joke!) Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul and played some licks through the 2x miced Bogner Setup through the PA and then plug the guitar cable into the Axe-Fx and played some licks through the Axe-Fx (Amp+Cab Block only) with a similiar sound ("classic rocksound" & "Clean" on all setups) ....through the same PA at same volume level....

Before he started i thought to myself ... oh my god, and the we`ll find out, that the Bogners will kill the Axe-Fx ... and my job would be to get the Axe sound nearly good, like the real stuff....

All i have to say: I WAS BLOWN AWAY!!!!! The Axe-Fx eats and kill the Bogner Setups in ALL disciplines! Dynamic, pressure, gain structure ... also the fingerprint-sound of different guitars (Custom Shop Strats & Teles & Gibsons) the Axe-Fx translates far better htan the actual Amps!!!!!!!

Guys: THIS WAS MIND BLOWING! UP THE AXES!

And it is soooo easy to get stellar sounds out of this unit! For example: We plug the sound of this Video into the venue console and listen to through the D&B PA:



Then, we tried to get close or at least into the ballpark of this sound. So, i put the Friedman HBE into the grid, a cab-block, a delay and a reverb. Done. First, i kept the Amp settings totally default and put some Single-Mic IRs from my upcoming Cab-Packs into the Cab-Block. MAN!!! We both were BLOWN AWAY! No tweaks necessary! With his Gibson Les Paul, it sounds just INCREDIBLE! After that i did some adjustments in the Amp & Reverb & Delay blocks to close the gap to the sound from the video, but hands down: This was more or less just for fun, because the Axe-Fx kills the sound in the video anyway with stock Amp settings ....

Guys, this was a mind-blowing experience to monitor the Axe-Fx and A/B it to some high-end Amp setups through an well calibrated high-end PA at gig level!

THE AXE TAKES IT ALL! :) :encouragement:
 
yek said:
Great story!
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... Absoluteley! And true! And it was a even greater experience with all those High-End gear ... :) did i mention the "not in use anymore" Lexicons PCM96 & 91, i watched out in a room at the basement? .... ;)
 
Just tell the client you want some reference material for further analysis. As long as he thinks it's for his benefit and not ours, then everyone wins. LOL.
 
interesting. was wondering how close the Axe's XTC 20th sim actually is to the real thing, as I'm more familiar with the older XTCs which sound quite different to the 20th...
 
pitta said:
Did you capture some IRs from the setup?
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No! I really wanted, but 1) there was no time for doing these things, because he was my client and i had to help him with his stuff as he wanted for sure ... and 2) i did not have the gear with me to do MIC+DI in the quality i do this stuff normally these days... perhaps in the future ... because ... You can`t have enough Bogner 4x12 and cool BadCat cab IRs ... haha :)
 
VegaBaby said:
interesting. was wondering how close the Axe's XTC 20th sim actually is to the real thing, as I'm more familiar with the older XTCs which sound quite different to the 20th...
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Yeah, but to answer questions like this, we`ve had doing MIC+DI IR`s from his miced Cabs, load that into the Axe-Fx and compare the "real deal" through the Axe-Fx with the SAME Cab sound! No time for that, unfortunately!!!!! I would love to do things like that, but ... as i said ... i was there for work, not for fun ... (even it WAS FUN! :) )

And because the Axe-Fx sounded better than the real deal, there was no need to capture and clone via tonematch the real deal into the Axe-Fx ... ;)
 
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Great Markus...that single mic ir from your upcomming CabPack what sort of cab is it and did you use the for the single mic the C414? :eagerness:
 
Absolutely true. As a long time Bogner endorser and user (I also live about a mile or two from Bogner Hq in Noho) I've done countless comparisons with my own 20th Ann Shiva, standard shiva combo and other Bogner amps which I get on loan.

They are so damn close I'd probably fail a blind test. The only differences I ever hear between the axe fx and the real thing are when I plug the real amps into a venue with bad power.
 
Black Bitch said:
Great Markus...that single mic ir from your upcomming CabPack what sort of cab is it and did you use the for the single mic the C414? :eagerness:
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I just put one of the four Speakers of the the Marshall 68er G12M 20Watt Cab or the 71er G12M25 Cab into the Cab-Block ... I love "greenbacks" ... *lol

We did just tried 4 or 5 single-mic IRs and BAM found two, that sound awesome right out of the box with the stock am settings. I prefered a SM57IR and a E906IR ... honestly we did not try C414er ... but a MD421. Sounds also good, nice mids, but MD421 i like better in a MIX, not alone as single mic... SM57 and E906 works oftenly right away ... so i start always with these ...

and ... there was not the time for doings mixes and all that stuff ... and the MIX IRs i will put into the upcoming Cab-Packs aren`t ready to date.... but i also have to say: Many of the single Mics are that excellent great, i really do not feel the need of mixing... if there are dozens of single-mic IRs which work awesome good...
 
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I've been telling the whiners for years to do an apples to apples comparison, in other words a gig-level miced/isolated tube rig vs. Axe-Fx direct, monitored through what the audience hears.

I'm glad somebody finally did it, and in such a way you can't blame it on the gear, mic placement, PA or soundman.

Kudos!
 
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Morphosis said:
Yeah, but to answer questions like this, we`ve had doing MIC+DI IR`s from his miced Cabs, load that into the Axe-Fx and compare the "real deal" through the Axe-Fx with the SAME Cab sound! No time for that, unfortunately!!!!! I would love to do things like that, but ... as i said ... i was there for work, not for fun ... (even it WAS FUN! :) )

And because the Axe-Fx sounded better than the real deal, there was no need to capture and clone via tonematch the real deal into the Axe-Fx ... ;)
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that surely would have been way too time consuming ! I guess if it was agreed on that the Axe sounded "better"..mission accomplished ;) .
 
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