Better distortion. Amp vs Drive pedal?

Despite reading so many posts regarding the wonders of the drive pedals TS Rat etc, when I add before the amp in chain it changes tone completely despite contant tweaks. I've read some put the amp gain high and drive pedal less gain, or is it the other way around? What I'm trying is to push from my rhythm tone to solo with a boost of volume. Don't kill me on this but as superb as this is against my old Boss GT-100, that had a switch with no tone or anything, all it did was boost volume.

Crude as it was, it was easy to dial in and use as volume boost. I've tried all boosts but still can't belive people like Tony Iommi and Brian May only used a treble boost as everyone describes, I've tried those and they do exactly what is on the tin. Boost treble! I'm sure it's in this magic box of tricks but can't nail it.

So do I boost gain on amp or use drive pedal with increased distortion although it changes the tone radically? Lol or other way around?
 
I'd recommend the Esoteric RCB. Very transparent pedal used for the exact purpose that you are looking for. Hitting the front of the amp with more db and getting that sweet sustain needed for leads.
 
Only you can decide what sounds better. But overdrive can typically occur in 3 places: an overdrive pedal, that preamp and the power amp.

So ignoring the overdrive pedal for the moment, you could use the preamp and it's tone controls to push the power amp into distortion. Or preamps with enough gain can overdrive their preamp and use the power amp clean to amplify that sound. Or you can have a mixture of both.

Adding a stomp box overdrive can also be used fairly clean (low drive level high output level) to shape the pre-drive tone and push the preamp and/or power amp into distortion. Or can add an amount of overdrive pedal distortion and use the amp clean, or with a mixture of preamp and/or power amp overdrive.

And to make things even more interesting, high-gain amps can have multiple stages of preamp overdrive, so you're spoiled for choice. I recommend you experiment with these different overdrive types (each on their own at first) to dial in towards the tones you like, and away from the ones you don't.
 
Drive pedals will alter your tone. If you want a clean boost for solo, just put a filter block after the amp: type= null, everything at default except level (which has a range of 20 dB, but 3-4 should be enough); this will make tone louder, without altering your tone. If you want more gain, you can do the same, but just put the filter block before the amp - that way you'll be making the signal from your guitar hit the amp harder without altering the basic tone of the guitar.

/Martin
 
You asking a subjective question about what is "better" tone so no one can really tell you what will sound best for you. Only real "answer" is to try it different ways, try pushing an amp hard with a various pedals, trying using a high gain amp with just the amp distortion (blend of pre and power amp) and try putting various pedals in front of a high gain amp to tighten it up. Pick the one that sounds best

Luckily with the Axe its very quick and easy to try lots of different pedals and gain settings.
 
What Martin said. The Boss was most likely just a make-it-louder volume boost at the end of the chain.

Also, keep in mind that adding a drive (or even filter) before the amp may not give you much of any volume boost if the amp already has a lot of gain. All that will happen in that case is the sound will get thicker or the tone will change depending on the type/amount of drive in the pedal since the amp is already clipping off dynamics.

TT
 
If you're just looking for a volume boost, you could use a filter set to null and raise the block's output volume. Or use a volume block, or something like that. If you just want more volume without a tone change, why use a drive?
 
Cheers everyone had a good session on it today, off to bed now but will try again tomorrow. I like the sound of the null one. Never heard of it before. Thanks for all replies
 
If you use scenes you have a clean boost available at the output as well. The nice part about that one is it has zero CPU overhead.
 
If you use scenes you have a clean boost available at the output as well. The nice part about that one is it has zero CPU overhead.

This is the method I use.
The best thing is that because it's a scene I can toggle on and off any other effects I want for the lead tone.
 
I had a similar problem with my real tube amp. Boosting in front of the amp didn't result in increased volume - just more gain. I solved this by using my boost (Xotic RC Booster) in the FX loop, effectively placing it between the pre amp and power amp (correct me if I'm wrong here).

This pedal is very transparent anyway, but I set it with increased volume and minimal gain to maintain the tone. I could get huge increases in volume this way, so it worked perfectly. I've sold my amp and am now going to be using an Axe FX II only setup, so this is something I'll be looking to address.

There are so many options, but ideally, I'll find something I can use like the above real world example. Then I can just incorporate it into a scene.

Hellbat - you mentioned "a clean boost available at the output as well" - can you please elaborate on this? Is this something that isn't available when not using scenes? Or do you mean that scenes give you the ability to configure different output volumes?
 
with all the parameters you can tweak on the amp I dont think the old boost if front for high gain is really needed in the axe fx like it is with a real amp . There are plenty of ways to tighten up the tone in the parameters
 
The output volume is set per scene, so you can use it as a boost or cut. An example of using it as a cut would be if you wanted to keep the output level the same when using a drive block to slam the front of a clean amp. On some amps doing that can really result in a volume boost, so you can use the cut to keep things level without having to muck around with modifiers on the amp block.
 
It all depends on when you grew up. In the 1970s there wasn't a ton of gain available, so you maxed out power tube distortion. In the 1980s pedals came around allowing you to play quieter. It wasn't until the 1990s when the gained out preamps really began taking over.

Since I cut my teeth in the 80s, I use a pedal in front of a half gained up amp.
 
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Cheers everyone had a good session on it today, off to bed now but will try again tomorrow. I like the sound of the null one. Never heard of it before. Thanks for all replies

I use a variant of this idea. Instead of a flat boost using a filter, I changed it to a peaking type, and then set the frequency to a hump across the mids (fairly wide Q). What that did was boost all the mids into the amp block which had the effect of giving more more gain, but across the mids more than the bass and treble. I found that sounded better for leads in my case. It thickens up the sound without getting too shrill or boomy.

I'm sure there is a fletcher munson explanation for that...
 
the thing with gain is that you can have too much of a good thing…
pedal, preamp and power amp gain all sound different..
get to know them and decide what suites your needs best..
and then get the bulk of the gain from one place

personally, I mostly prefer it coming just from a hot preamp for riffing and solos..
but for classic rock, more from the power amp
for cleans and funk, a hint of power amp drive works a treat..
 
One option is to increase the Input Trim parameter in the amp block which pushes the amp harder at input. This parameter can be used with a modifier, or set specifically via X/Y, so you could for example, have it set higher in a Lead scene than in a Rhythm scene. Combined with a few db boost at patch output which can also be set by scene.

I tend to like the drive pedals against clean amps. For gain amps, as stated above, there's lots of switchable ways to boost / add gain for leads that don't require a drive pedal (Pre/Master Trim, Boost, Saturation, x/y, Drive/Master).
 
I've tried all boosts but still can't belive people like Tony Iommi and Brian May only used a treble boost as everyone describes, I've tried those and they do exactly what is on the tin. Boost treble!

You have to use the normal channel of the amp when using a treble booster. It will sound thin, shrill, and pretty terrible on the bright channel of most amps. A treble booster into the the sometimes tubby and boomy normal channel of a plexi style amp tightens it up and makes it sound great.

If you just need to boost volume and not distortion, put a null filter block after the amp and boost it about 3 dB or so. Instant transparent and switchable solo boost. If you need more dirt, you have a ton of options. Input trim, input gain, boost, and saturation in the amp block, add a drive block, EQ or null filter in front of the amp, etc. Which works best depends on what your are trying to achieve.
 
Despite reading so many posts regarding the wonders of the drive pedals TS Rat etc, when I add before the amp in chain it changes tone completely despite contant tweaks. I've read some put the amp gain high and drive pedal less gain, or is it the other way around?

Drive pedals will always change your tone - that's the point of them! There are several ways to simply boost volume in the AFX as many have pointed out.

Personally, a mildly 'cooking' amp pushed into distortion with a mid-heavy overdrive sound glorious. I use a lot of external drive pedals into the front end of the AFX and it reacts beautifully
 
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