Best way to switch between two chains in a preset with a pedal

dsimms

dsimms

Inspired
I want to use my EV-1 pedal (Expression pedal 1) to switch between two chains in a preset. We're doing Living on a Prayer and I stay busy on the expression pedal varying the talkbox. I need a preset that let's me change between a talk box chain and Friedman BE chain quickly without taking my foot off the expression pedal like so:

Pedal heel down: BE chain only, Voicebox chain off
Pedal anywhere else: Voicebox on, BE off

I have another EV-1 to control the volumes. I've attached the patch.

I've spent a couple days trying various things and reading up on controllers/modifiers and auto-engage but haven't figured it out yet. Should I try getting there using the pedal to control/change XY states, something inside one of the existing blocks, or use a mixer or volume/pan block?
 

Attachments

  • TalkBox & BE.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 7
By talkbox do you mean formant block? I don't have an XL to view your preset, but you should be able to use auto-engage on one block in each path. The formant block can be set for mute bypass mode. A volume block in the other path could use thru bypass mode and have its volume at 0. Assign a volume modifier in this vol/pan block and set min/max both to 0. (Any other parameter could be used for this technique, like balance fixed at 0.) Use the same autoengage setting for both blocks.
 
Bakerman said:
By talkbox do you mean formant block? I don't have an XL to view your preset, but you should be able to use auto-engage on one block in each path. The formant block can be set for mute bypass mode. A volume block in the other path could use thru bypass mode and have its volume at 0. Assign a volume modifier in this vol/pan block and set min/max both to 0. (Any other parameter could be used for this technique, like balance fixed at 0.) Use the same autoengage setting for both blocks.
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Yes, I'm using a formant block, and referred to the whole chain as a talkbox chain. I'm actually using a simplified version of Matt's talkbox patch he shared.
 
Admin M@ said:
How about a pedal with a toe switch instead?
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I'm staying with my two EV-1s and don't have room for a third pedal on the board. Plus, the wah works so well I know I can get there... just having trouble placing and setting up the modifiers/auto-engage.

By the way, thanks for your talkbox patch! I used the HBE side of it for my talkbox chain in this preset. Had to take the Cameron side out when I put the BE in there.
 
why not just use one chain? I have made it work as you are looking for easy enough but I use exp 2 instead of 1( I have global volume on 1), and mission pedal is a little close for the auto engage and to get all three vowel sounds.

I cant remember how to get a preset on the site I can put it on the exchange.
 
You can use a mixer block to switch between one and the other or blend the two together...not sure if this is what you're after though.
 
I currently use an expression pedal to change to my lead tone. I program heel down for rhythm and heel up for lead. I use the lead function to turn on a null filter block with a volume boost. I do this by setting up the bypass on the filter block to be controlled by controller 1 (which is the channel that my expression pedal is on) then I set the min value to off position (all the way to left) and the max value to on in the controller dialog box. You can have a block disabled on heel up by setting the bypass on that block to be the opposite values for min and max. Make sense?
 
paranoid said:
yes but I think he wants to use the same expression for the formant.
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Then you could engage the formant on any value above min 0, I would think. That way when you un-park it (for lack of a better term) then the formant block is engaged and as long as it does not go back to 0 you can use it to control the formant.
 
paranoid said:
yes and the hbe inverted. you can just use the bypass states!
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Like Paranoid said, you can assign modifiers on the amp Bypass Mode and the Formant Bypass Mode using the same expression pedal. Just set the Off Value to 5% (heel down) on both modifiers but invert the amp modifier values (set MIN to ON and MAX to OFF on amp bypass modifier set to MUTE) so the amp bypass is working opposite the Formant.
 
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When my pedal is unplugged, my preset defaults to heel up (lead sound). Does anyone know how to change this behavior? It is really inconvenient when I don't have my pedal handy.
 
bdrepko said:
When my pedal is unplugged, my preset defaults to heel up (lead sound). Does anyone know how to change this behavior? It is really inconvenient when I don't have my pedal handy.
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you can adjust this in the I/o menu on the axe fx, set the beginning % for the external controllers 1-12 to 0 or 100,depending how you want them to start. This will be a global setting though. if you want only one patch to be changed you will have to invert the controller to start were you want it.
 
paranoid said:
you can adjust this in the I/o menu on the axe fx, set the beginning % for the external controllers 1-12 to 0 or 100,depending how you want them to start. This will be a global setting though. if you want only one patch to be changed you will have to invert the controller to start were you want it.
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That worked. Thanks!
 
tgorycki said:
Like Paranoid said, you can assign modifiers on the amp Bypass Mode and the Formant Bypass Mode using the same expression pedal. Just set the Off Value to 5% (heel down) on both modifiers but invert the amp modifier values (set MIN to ON and MAX to OFF on amp bypass modifier set to MUTE) so the amp bypass is working opposite the Formant.
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Paranoid and tgorycki, thanks for the tips on the Bypass Mode. I've got Min set to 100 and Max set to 0 for the BE and Min set to 0 and Max set to 100 for the talkbox as you suggested. That's getting me close to what I want, except the changeover point where the talkbox takes over from the BE, which should be just off heel down, doesn't occur until about 25% travel. That doesn't let me use the pedal to control the talkbox since it brings in the BE too much if I get the pedal too close to heel down. I've recalibrated the pedal on the MFC 101 to make sure it isn't a calibration issue. Do I need to tweak some other modifier settings or use autoengage to make this happen at heel down?
 
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dsimms said:
Paranoid and tgorycki, thanks for the tips on the Bypass Mode. I've got Min set to 100 and Max set to 0 for the BE and Min set to 0 and Max set to 100 for the talkbox as you suggested. That's getting me close to what I want, except the changeover point where the talkbox takes over from the BE, which should be just off heel down, doesn't occur until about 25% travel. That doesn't let me use the pedal to control the talkbox since it brings in the BE too much if I get the pedal too close to heel down. I've recalibrated the pedal on the MFC 101 to make sure it isn't a calibration issue. Do I need to tweak some other modifier settings or use autoengage to make this happen at heel down?
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Yes, you need to use Autoengage for both the amp and formant bypass modes. Try setting Autoengage to Medium Speed at first, then try other settings if you need to. Probably best to use the same setting on both blocks.
 
Thanks tgorycki. I found another way around this to make things happen, from the Axe wiki modifiers section (see below for specifics), and it moves the switch to slightly off heel down instead of 25 - 30% travel. This is working very well now, so I'm where I need to be with this one. It's been a big lesson in modifier settings for me. We'll be including the song in this weekend's gigs and I'm happy I won't have to tapdance like crazy to make this happen.

I've attached this preset, along with the intro preset (synth plus voicebox) if anyone's interested.

From the wiki:
  • Make the Auto-Engage "bump" disppear (true bypass at heel-down): Pitch MIX; Start 40; Mid 100; End 55; Slope 0; Scale 10; Offset 100.
 

Attachments

  • Liv Prayer Intro.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 6
  • TalkBox & BE.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 5
I cant seem to figure out how to put a preset on the forum here, but you can also alter the on off point of the bypass in the modifier window with out using the auto engage, this is how I would do it. it gives you the ability to make 95% the formant and 5% to the hbe Or how ever you want to adjust it. I am not sure why though you would not just use 1 amp and have the formant turn on and off. I have a living on a patch set up so the formant bypass is toe down and it works well to run the vowels up on the c and d chords and turn off for the chorus.
 
paranoid said:
I cant seem to figure out how to put a preset on the forum here, but you can also alter the on off point of the bypass in the modifier window with out using the auto engage, this is how I would do it. it gives you the ability to make 95% the formant and 5% to the hbe Or how ever you want to adjust it. I am not sure why though you would not just use 1 amp and have the formant turn on and off. I have a living on a patch set up so the formant bypass is toe down and it works well to run the vowels up on the c and d chords and turn off for the chorus.
Click to expand...

Mine doesn't use auto-engage, just a custom curve based on that wiki article I referenced, and it worked great at the gig last night. I used separate chains because I liked Matt's somewhat busy chain preset "talkinonabox", and it was easier to preserve his chain (although I had to drop one part of it out since adding another chain with my BE would have added a third amp in there which isn't allowed). I'm sure I could figure out a single chain to do this and switch the block settings with the expression pedal, but I'm happy with where it is. As usual, there are several ways to skin the cat with the Axe.

I just used the "Upload a File" button to add the presets to my post. If it's not working for you, it might be a browser issue.
 
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