Best way to combat digital high end w. Axe FX settings?

Have to agree that if you find that extended high end annoying, it's quite hard to dial out without losing clarity. I've been trying hard and a lot to do this but didn't really succeed yet. It's not just me who hears this, though, a friend of mine who's been mostly a session player for 30+ years also tells me that he'd jump on an Axe XL in a heartbeat if he could easily deal with that somehow but until that it's a dead giveaway to him that it's not a tube amp on the recording.
 
axes said:
Have to agree that if you find that extended high end annoying, it's quite hard to dial out without losing clarity. I've been trying hard and a lot to do this but didn't really succeed yet. It's not just me who hears this, though, a friend of mine who's been mostly a session player for 30+ years also tells me that he'd jump on an Axe XL in a heartbeat if he could easily deal with that somehow but until that it's a dead giveaway to him that it's not a tube amp on the recording.
Click to expand...

Yep, glad it's not just me. I've been trying for months just to tame this in a natural way at gig volumes especially. I cut at 5.5 to 6k in cab block in every preset and keep bright/prescence down but once i turn up at a gig i have to cut again in global to try and tame, but then i lose something. Option is to be either ear piercing / harsh at high end or unnaturally dark/cut. I can't understand how most people seem to have their sounds sorted and i'm still struggling after months. Although most posts don't distinguish as to whether their sound is great at home/studio levels or gig levels. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but what i don't know. I use FRFR (CLR).
 
DrHee said:
Yep, glad it's not just me. I've been trying for months just to tame this in a natural way at gig volumes especially. I cut at 5.5 to 6k in cab block in every preset and keep bright/prescence down but once i turn up at a gig i have to cut again in global to try and tame, but then i lose something. Option is to be either ear piercing / harsh at high end or unnaturally dark/cut. I can't understand how most people seem to have their sounds sorted and i'm still struggling after months. Although most posts don't distinguish as to whether their sound is great at home/studio levels or gig levels. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but what i don't know. I use FRFR (CLR).
Click to expand...

You need to try different IRs. Your experience is not typical. The Axe-Fx does not produce any more high end than the actual amps modeled. This is a design goal and has been tested thoroughly. The other possibility is that you are overdriving your monitor. Class-D power amps get very harsh when driven into clipping.
 
axes said:
Have to agree that if you find that extended high end annoying, it's quite hard to dial out without losing clarity. I've been trying hard and a lot to do this but didn't really succeed yet. It's not just me who hears this, though, a friend of mine who's been mostly a session player for 30+ years also tells me that he'd jump on an Axe XL in a heartbeat if he could easily deal with that somehow but until that it's a dead giveaway to him that it's not a tube amp on the recording.
Click to expand...

Why don't you shoot an IR with your friend's cabinet? Record the the real amp and the axe-fx with that IR and compare the two?
 
levipeto said:
Why don't you shoot an IR with your friend's cabinet? Record the the real amp and the axe-fx with that IR and compare the two?
Click to expand...

Good point. Let's get all apples in the bucket. With all due respect, people who say there's something about the AxeFX tone that is a dead giveaway it's not a tube amp is speaking out their sphincter.

I did a gig a while back where I had to play another dude's rig (we were opening and they didn't want our gear on stage). He was using a Vox AC15. That thing was so freakin bright and piercing I almost couldn't stand it. It's a tube amp by the way ;-) Like Cliff said, experiment with other IR's. Also, try adding the preamp in the cab block which to me thickens the tone and smooths the high end.
 
DrHee said:
Yep, glad it's not just me. I've been trying for months just to tame this in a natural way at gig volumes especially. I cut at 5.5 to 6k in cab block in every preset and keep bright/prescence down but once i turn up at a gig i have to cut again in global to try and tame, but then i lose something. Option is to be either ear piercing / harsh at high end or unnaturally dark/cut. I can't understand how most people seem to have their sounds sorted and i'm still struggling after months. Although most posts don't distinguish as to whether their sound is great at home/studio levels or gig levels. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but what i don't know. I use FRFR (CLR).
Click to expand...
I have a set of presets which are set up to sound good at gig volumes, AND a set of presets which sound good at recording / studio volume. Due to the Fletcher-Munson effect I find this much easier, rather than to try and compensate the same preset for one or the other situation. Maybe you would benefit from this too?
 
I can say for the first time in history that I know of, this unit acts like a Tube or SS amp would in terms of the High end. Yes it can have that fizzle if you want, but you can also get rid of it. I think the IR is huge in this too, and of course rolling off the highs is another method. And others in here have offered solid suggestions.
 
swervedriver said:
I have a set of presets which are set up to sound good at gig volumes, AND a set of presets which sound good at recording / studio volume. Due to the Fletcher-Munson effect I find this much easier, rather than to try and compensate the same preset for one or the other situation. Maybe you would benefit from this too?
Click to expand...

This is a good approach. I have been experimenting with just X/Y states of the cab block - one for playing in a mix & the other when just playing guitar by itself (setup for a more "in the room sound").
 
FractalAudio said:
You need to try different IRs. Your experience is not typical. The Axe-Fx does not produce any more high end than the actual amps modeled. This is a design goal and has been tested thoroughly. The other possibility is that you are overdriving your monitor. Class-D power amps get very harsh when driven into clipping.
Click to expand...

Well i have gtr input to axe at 50% - the point at which front input meter just goes into and out of red quickly when strings are hit hard, output 1 dial on axe around noon, vu meter for preset averaging at the 0 line, input dial on CLR at noon which is the point just before it starts to turn the CLR input clip light on, then output dial on CLR on anything up to max. Not sure what else i should check as i'vd read manual & tons of articles/posts - maybe there's something else i've missed?
 
Best thing I've done so far is run the analog outs into a Chandler TG2 preamp before the converter. Warms up the signal/eats some of that brittle high end without actually making it sound dull or lost in the mix. I think I found my solution :)
 
Since firmware 17.x, the high end sounds warm to me. Definitely not harsh or brittle.

I wonder if the problem is too little lows / low mids?

With 17.x and now 18.04, most of my presets with just a few minor tweaks to the basic tone controls sound really balanced. For example, the default Plexi(s) settings sound pretty good on my gear.

But with 200+ amp models, I can only vouch for the ones I've tried and use on a regular basis.
 
Quick question that is probably appropriate here. As a preset with some drive (whether a crunch or lead tone) is turned up to gig volume, would you expect to increase drive in order to get back to the same creamyness/saturated feel you had at the lower volume and take away any harshness the extra volume has added? I'm assuming tweaking highs and lows is a given due to Fletcher-Munson so am not referring to those tone control tweaks.
 
DrHee said:
Quick question that is probably appropriate here. As a preset with some drive (whether a crunch or lead tone) is turned up to gig volume, would you expect to increase drive in order to get back to the same creamyness/saturated feel you had at the lower volume and take away any harshness the extra volume has added? I'm assuming tweaking highs and lows is a given due to Fletcher-Munson so am not referring to those tone control tweaks.
Click to expand...

I actually found that I had to turn gain down for live use on most of my presets. They sounded awesome on their own but in a live setting, I was suddenly like, "Wow these have a lot of gain." Taming them a bit seemed to fit better in the mix. And I'm actually a guy that thinks most people use way more gain than they need as a general rule in the first place. Still had to adjust it a bit. Of course, this is specific to the type of music you play and what you're going for. But for what we do, I had just a bit too much gain going and had to tame it to sit better for us. I wouldn't have called it harsh...just too much for my needs.
 
Ok, thanks for responses. It's just that when i turn up volume on a creamy, soft, warm overdriven tone on my CLR, at a certain point it becomes "hard" and the feel is totally different, actually feels less overdriven. Was trying to find some general ways to put right, but back to drawing board.
 
DrHee said:
Ok, thanks for responses. It's just that when i turn up volume on a creamy, soft, warm overdriven tone on my CLR, at a certain point it becomes "hard" and the feel is totally different, actually feels less overdriven. Was trying to find some general ways to put right, but back to drawing board.
Click to expand...

There are so many variables at play, it's hard to give specific advice.

For example, what guitar? pickups? strings? picks? wireless? cable?

How is the guitar setup?

How did you gain stage the CLR's? How are the CLR's positioned relative to the room and to you? What is the room you are listening in like, dimensions, material?

Preset details, grid, gate, block gain staging, amp settings, IR, ....?

If you play full program material through the CLR's, does it sound okay at gig volume? Use a CD or .wav file mix of a record in the style you play or a record that you are very familiar with the mix.
 
With all 5 guitars (strat/PRS/ibanez,etc), any preset (user or factory), home, rehearsal, stage. Gain staging as per my above post. Sounds like must be too complicated to solve here. I'll check out the info link posted above. Thanks anyway
 
Interesting read, i really don't have the high end harshness. I have a problem with my Lollar Imperial humbucker neck pickup in my sadowsky semi getting muddy at high volumes, only when i use the filter block to boost my volume..i tried rolling off some of the lows in the filter block. but it still seems to be there, the clarity is gone. any ideas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom