Best way to adjust overall volume?

X

Xcdchdchjjf

Experienced
When switching between amps, and some are lower volume, (usually using clean amps) where should I go first to adjust volume?

I always have the little top knob maxed out, I am using HR108 and I try to keep it around 8 of 11 on the HR.

I know we are never supposed to clip the OUT of the FM, but can "tickle the red" on the input.


So should I adjust the input volume first? (the "output" in the Input block).

Or should I be adjusting the volume in the Amp block?


Or SHOULD I be using the Output block and boosting that volume.



I think someone said that +/-6db "sounds like" the volume has been doubled, to a human ear....
 
Xcdchdchjjf said:
I think someone said that +/-6db "sounds like" the volume has been doubled, to a human ear....
Click to expand...
That’s not what I hear.

3 dB is the minimal average where most people notice a difference in an ensemble situation, such as a band playing and someone wants to have a solo boost. 6 dB is the next step up, definitely not twice as loud.

This might help:
A 1 dB change in sound pressure level is the smallest difference perceptible by normal human hearing under very controlled conditions, using a pure tone (sine wave) stimulus. A 1 dB change in level is very difficult to hear when listening to dynamic music.

To produce an increase of +1 dB you need to increase power (watts) by a factor of 1.26. So, if you are getting 102 dB SPL from 100 watts and you want 103 dB SPL, you will need 126 watts of power. To produce a decrease of –1 dB you need to divide the reference power by 1.26, so you would reduce power from 100 watts to 79.4 watts.

A change of 3 dB is accepted as the smallest difference in level that is easily heard by most listeners listening to speech or music. It is a slight increase or decrease in volume.

To produce an increase of +3 dB you simply need to double power (watts).

So, if you are getting 102 dB SPL from 100 watts and you want 105 dB SPL, you will need 200 watts of power. To produce a decrease of –3 dB you need half the power, so you would reduce power from 100 watts to 50 watts.

Since this 3 dB plateau results in such a happy ratio, it is a very useful relationship to memorize:

“2 times the power = +3dB...

1/2 the power = –3dB”.

A change of 6 dB is accepted as a significant difference in level for any listener listening to speech or music. It is a quite noticeable increase or decrease in loudness.

To produce an increase of +6 dB you need to increase power (watts) by a factor of four. So, if you are getting 102 dB SPL from 100 watts and you want 108 dB SPL, you will need 400 watts of power (it adds up fast, doesn’t it?). To produce a decrease of –6 dB you need to divide the reference power by 4, so you would reduce power from 100 watts to 25 watts.
Click to expand...
https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217201737-Doubling-Power-vs-Doubling-Output

So, if 3 dB is the minimal value and 6 dB is ”significant”, imagine what twice as loud would be at concert volume and how much power it’d take.
 
Last edited:
I naturally want to go to the Output block. My reasoning is that I want to avoid changing the tone. Large volume changes will bring perceived tonal changes, but if I'm reading you right, you're talking about relatively minor changes (just adjusting for different amps) so that's where I'd go.
 
Avoid the output block, especially per scene settings. Your effect tails will raise and lower in volume.

Start in the Amp block.

Get the hottest signal out of the Axe that you can so your downstream equipment is adding as little gain as possible. Otherwise, you are amplifying the noise floor along with your signal.
 
fractalz said:
Avoid the output block, especially per scene settings. Your effect tails will raise and lower in volume.

Start in the Amp block.

Get the hottest signal out of the Axe that you can so your downstream equipment is adding as little gain as possible. Otherwise, you are amplifying the noise floor along with your signal.
Click to expand...
Output block is the place to start IMO for what it seems he wants.

Of course the effect tails will raise proportionally, as they should, because you are adjusting the overall level of that scene and you should want that to happen to maintain the sound of that scene.

Going your route runs into issues of A affects B affects C. That's why the Output is the easy place to at least start. For large volume changes, you will probably need to adjust the Amp block because then you run into perceived tonal changes just due to the volume and how that is sensed by the human ear.
 
Xcdchdchjjf said:
When switching between amps, and some are lower volume, (usually using clean amps) where should I go first to adjust volume?

I always have the little top knob maxed out, I am using HR108 and I try to keep it around 8 of 11 on the HR.

I know we are never supposed to clip the OUT of the FM, but can "tickle the red" on the input.

So should I adjust the input volume first? (the "output" in the Input block).

Or should I be adjusting the volume in the Amp block?

Or SHOULD I be using the Output block and boosting that volume.
Click to expand...

In the Cab block.







;)
j/k
 
fcs101 said:
I naturally want to go to the Output block. My reasoning is that I want to avoid changing the tone. Large volume changes will bring perceived tonal changes, but if I'm reading you right, you're talking about relatively minor changes (just adjusting for different amps) so that's where I'd go.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, I want the simplest solution to not "change the dynamics" or tone or anything.

However the manual states that you shouldnt really adjust the Output block , as youre going to clip the output which is a no no...

Clipping the input is fine.

This is where the discrepancy comes from, I guess I saw last night the "Volume" knob in the Amp block (which is in multiple pages of the amp block) I think are all the same control? If you raise one all the others raise... I guess, I only saw it for a second.
 
yek said:
In the Cab block.







;)
j/k
Click to expand...
I was going to update the other thread, Yes i have been working on "working with" the cab block, since its sort of essential if you want an amp... sort of... I noticed that raising the Air (which I am guessing is some kind of exciter type thing?) helps alot in making it feel open, and removing some of the boxy sound.

I would love to hear the tones of anyone with opinions btw. :) seriously... to understand the tone and taste of who is making the comments...

There are many ways to get to the same result I suppose, which is a "good sounding clean and clear" amp. (ZERO boxiness)

To me trying to do this and sometimes thinking its been succeeded makes me feel like I "have a dumble" or something.

Maybe its just been too long since Ive heard a good tube amp. Mine started dying a year ago.

But yeah I imagine you can hear the "muffled and boxy" sound that the Cab block makes.
Perhaps you prefer that sound. Again I am not a hard rock player... I dont give a s about the sound of a cab, but I appreciate the "sound" of tubes. Being as clean as they can.... "Fender"
 
yek said:
The manual doesn't state that.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...now-about-levels-iii-fm3.168584/#post-2025299
Click to expand...
From the manual

OUTPUT LEVELS Output levels are easy to monitor by paging to the Meters page of the Home page. Should your output levels be too high, the OUT 1 CLIP or OUT 2 CLIP LEDs on the front panel will light. This is a true indication of imminent clipping, and unlike inputs, outputs should NOT “tickle the red”. To lower output levels, you can adjust the top panel knobs or adjust the level of your presets.
 
Lance Holland said:
Just an FWIW - I leave the little knobs for output levels 1 and 2 at noon. That way, while I'm playing, I can make a quick adjustment easily.
Click to expand...
Cool info. But then is that the "proper" way to do it?

I will have to RTFM again...

I am seriously asking, if that is the "proper" way to do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom