best tips for "amp in the room" tone with FRFR

D

dschaaf

Experienced
I have been going through various posts as well as the Axe FX II Wiki to try to glean the info for the best way to get that "amp in the room" feel from my new FRFR setup (2x EV ELX112p's)Up until this point I have been outputting to a Mesa 2:90 into [2] 2x12 cabs. I just play at home for the most part and want the flexibility of the FRFR setup but ideally want the same tone and feel when playing that I get through my real cabs.

I would really appreciate any feedback on what is the best way to get that "amp in the room" feel......

Thanks,
D.
 
try experimenting with the 'room' page in the cab block

I personally found it to be very good..
 
clarky said:
try experimenting with the 'room' page in the cab block

I personally found it to be very good..
Click to expand...

Thanks Clarky!

I also saw this on the Wiki page

The Axe-FX II provides players with an very broad frequency range. Because of this it can be used for bass, acoustic instruments, guitars etc. There's much more bass and treble than is needed for playing electric guitar. When using a traditional guitar cabinet you won't notice this much because the cabinet filters the tone. But FR amplification passes all frequencies. There are several ways to deal with this: (Source)
Use a blocking PEQ. More information
Put the blocking PEQ (see above) before the Amp block instead of after it. This narrows the signal going into the Amp block. It kind of has the same goal but may sound better
Use a GEQ block and turn down 4k or 8k
Use the Low Cut / High Cut parameters in the Amp block and/or the Cab block to get similar results. For example 100-120Hz (Low cut) and 6-8kHz (High cut)
Use the tone knob on your guitar.

D
 
Try Scott Peterson's "cab" tricks ... !

Personally, I'm very used to hearing my gear folded back to me through the monitors, so I never missed the "Amp in the room" effect ....

But Scott's approach to the Cab-Block puts it as close as I've heard lately !
 
I have the same speakers, I found one, you must elevated them to ear or just above ear level, 2) in corners you get way more bass which I have to compensate for 3) I use the global eq to cut bass 4) turning them loud, the speakers just aint gonna thump like a real guitar cab at lower volumes 5) turn off the full range switch on the back (it makes the speakers NOT act like subwoofers) they are awesome speakers.
 
+1 that Scott's cab + verb block sounds good through several playback systems I've tried: Nearfields, high-end passive wedges, low-end powered wedges.

It does not sound exactly like an amp in the room if you are A/B with an amp. This is not off putting to me because, the sound is very good, cuts the stage mix and is fun to play.

If you are going to A/B with an amp and match it, these easiest thing is to just use a guitar cabinet. If you are going FRFR, wait for the CLR to be released :)

Richard
 
symphx said:
I have the same speakers, I found one, you must elevated them to ear or just above ear level, 2) in corners you get way more bass which I have to compensate for 3) I use the global eq to cut bass 4) turning them loud, the speakers just aint gonna thump like a real guitar cab at lower volumes 5) turn off the full range switch on the back (it makes the speakers NOT act like subwoofers) they are awesome speakers.
Click to expand...

Excellent...thanks!

I never thought of your point # 5...makes sense.

How do you use your FX II output <-> ELX112p volume interaction. For example do you set your ELX112p channel A volume to max, the ELX112p master volume to noon and then bring up your FX II volume to 10ish....or do you put the Axe higher and ELX lower or vice-versa etc.....?

Thanks,
d.
 
barhrecords said:
+1 that Scott's cab + verb block sounds good through several playback systems I've tried: Nearfields, high-end passive wedges, low-end powered wedges.

It does not sound exactly like an amp in the room if you are A/B with an amp. This is not off putting to me because, the sound is very good, cuts the stage mix and is fun to play.

If you are going to A/B with an amp and match it, these easiest thing is to just use a guitar cabinet. If you are going FRFR, wait for the CLR to be released :)

Richard
Click to expand...

Thanks :)
 
dschaaf said:
Excellent...thanks!

I never thought of your point # 5...makes sense.

How do you use your FX II output <-> ELX112p volume interaction. For example do you set your ELX112p channel A volume to max, the ELX112p master volume to noon and then bring up your FX II volume to 10ish....or do you put the Axe higher and ELX lower or vice-versa etc.....?

Thanks,
d.
Click to expand...

I use the high and low cut in the cab block first. Then if there is still to much of something I use the high and low cut in the power amp section (usually just low cut).
Eq to taste/needs.

With the EV's, I run it pretty much maxed out, all the time, even at bedroom level. Just quiet enough that there is no noticeable hiss. The full range switch is on, and
I run them like wedges. No bass problems. I play in a few bands and everything from Marvin Gaye to my own metal stuff. Tweak your patches at gig volume and check
out Scotts "Taming the Monster" -Building an Amp/Cab Preset in the Axe-FX II + Tweaking It and Leveling Presets Video with the Axe-FX II
I know you didn't ask me but I thought I would share how I use the EV.
 
Funeral said:
I use the high and low cut in the cab block first. Then if there is still to much of something I use the high and low cut in the power amp section (usually just low cut).
Eq to taste/needs.

With the EV's, I run it pretty much maxed out, all the time, even at bedroom level. Just quiet enough that there is no noticeable hiss. The full range switch is on, and
I run them like wedges. No bass problems. I play in a few bands and everything from Marvin Gaye to my own metal stuff. Tweak your patches at gig volume and check
out Scotts "Taming the Monster" -Building an Amp/Cab Preset in the Axe-FX II + Tweaking It and Leveling Presets Video with the Axe-FX II
I know you didn't ask me but I thought I would share how I use the EV.
Click to expand...

Thanks Funeral! (I have watched those vids but will do so again)

When you say you "run it pretty much maxed out" do you mean you run the EV's maxed (both channel and master) with the FXII output volume very low or the other way around :)

Thanks,
d.
 
Part of the good feeling with the real cabs is just the high volume.
Sounds so obvisious ....but isn't!

At a certain point there are enough highs to hear all details....decrease highs and presence and turn the volume up.
Lower bass if it's too much and go on turning it louder.
 
dschaaf said:
Thanks Funeral! (I have watched those vids but will do so again)

When you say you "run it pretty much maxed out" do you mean you run the EV's maxed (both channel and master) with the FXII output volume very low or the other way around :)

Thanks,
d.
Click to expand...

The EV, the channels are maxed and the master is 90-95%, unless Im just TRYING to be quiet. Like 666was999 said, crank it up and start tweaking.
 
will do....thanks :)

One other thing on the same note....with the EV's turned up the way you have then....do you still have you amp sims master volume up high and just the Axe output 1 very low or do you bring the output volume up and use the level to bring to back down.

Thanks,
D
 
dschaaf said:
will do....thanks :)

One other thing on the same note....with the EV's turned up the way you have then....do you still have you amp sims master volume up high and just the Axe output 1 very low or do you bring the output volume up and use the level to bring to back down.

Thanks,
D
Click to expand...

I use the amp and cab block levels to level my patches. The master volumes are part of the amp sim and vary from patch to patch (it does affect volume, but not the best way to level patches IMO. Use the master volume to get the sound you like and the level for volume.). My over all levels are controlled with the output 1 and 2 knobs.
I set Copy Out1 to Out2 to ON in the I/O menu Audio tab and Output 1 goes to my EV/EV's. Output 2 goes to FOH. And yes, I run the Output 1 knob under 12 o clock. At 12 its beyond loud. If that is not working, I will turn down the EV master a little.
Just depends. Ive run it the other way with the EV at about half on everything and the Axe at 2 or 3 o clock. I just like it better the first way. I can always turn it down, hard to turn it up when Im playing and I realize Im outta go juice.
 
well I must say that I am EXTREMELY pleased (for the first time with FRFR) with the results with my 2 new EV ELX112P's! I have been a/b'ing patches going between this FRFR setup and my usual Mesa 2:90--->(2) 2x12's and the AC30 stuff so far has been awesome!

As per the tips in this thread and the Wiki (in an effort to get that same "amp in the room" feel) I have done several things to remove the highs and lows to get it to respond more like a guitar speaker.

The Axe-FX II provides players with an very broad frequency range. Because of this it can be used for bass, acoustic instruments, guitars etc. There's much more bass and treble than is needed for playing electric guitar. When using a traditional guitar cabinet you won't notice this much because the cabinet filters the tone. But FR amplification passes all frequencies. There are several ways to deal with this:(Source)
Use a blocking PEQ. More information
Put the blocking PEQ (see above) before the Amp block instead of after it. This narrows the signal going into the Amp block. It kind of has the same goal but may sound better
Use a GEQ block and turn down 4k or 8k
Use the Low Cut / High Cut parameters in the Amp block and/or the Cab block to get similar results. For example 100-120Hz (Low cut) and 6-8kHz (High cut)
Use the tone knob on your guitar.


My question is....does anyone have a preferred method between cutting out the highs/lows using a PEQ versus dialling it out in either the cab or amp block?

Thanks,
D
 
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