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Best place for volume control?

SLM

Member
Hello,

A quick question for all the experienced axe users.

I have a simple setup, PEQ, to Amp, Cab, and then out. Where is the best place to control your volume at. For example, in a normal amp I would use the Amp/cab combination, with the amp controlling overall volume.

However in the axe, there are Mix settings at each block... If I use the mix settings in the Amp block, this decreases the volume into the Cab--will this impact how the Cab functions? If I keep the Amp/Cab combo together, and only use the Cab Mix setting, does this get a better sound, and have the cab behave and feel closer to a real amp.

Thanks...

Steve

PS: I have upgraded to V6, but every so often the system will freeze now, lock up, and everything becomes non-responsive (using Axe edit). If I shutdown the Axe, and bring it back up, everything seems to work. Also, it looks like the Looper does not retain its values for Mono/Stereo. However, the the fender amps sound better, and the fat channel is a plus!
 

chris

Legend!
most people use the Level control in the Amp block to control overall preset level. the level of the amp block does not affect the Cab block in anyway. you said "mix setting," but that is very different from the Level parameter, and the Amp block and Cab blocks do not have a Mix parameter anyway. you can also put effects and things between the amp and cab block and it will still function as normal. the cab is not "married" to the amp like a traditional setup.

as for your freezing, if you take Axe-Edit out of the equation, does it stop the freezing?
 

SLM

Member
Chris,

Thanks for getting back so quickly... um I was wrong.

So each amp and cab block have a "level" setting under the Mixer part of it. That is what I am confused at. here are some examples...

1. Amp has Mixer/Level at -10db, going into the Cab block, and then out.
2. Amp has Mixer/Level at 0db, going into the Cab Block, and the cab block is Mixer/Level at -10db

Since in case #1, the input to the Cab is lower, will the Cab respond differently than in #2. In #2, since the signal is hotter, I would expect the normal cab response to be a bit more extreme...

I am making the assumption that an amp/cab combination is the most natural, and the only Mixer/Level setting would be on the Cab, so that all the expected interaction between the amp and cab would fit the original models.

Am I missing something?

As for the Freezing, Axe-Edit is doing something odd. I have uninstalled and reinstalled everything. I'll see if that helps.

Thanks,

Steve

most people use the Level control in the Amp block to control overall preset level. the level of the amp block does not affect the Cab block in anyway. you said "mix setting," but that is very different from the Level parameter, and the Amp block and Cab blocks do not have a Mix parameter anyway. you can also put effects and things between the amp and cab block and it will still function as normal. the cab is not "married" to the amp like a traditional setup.

as for your freezing, if you take Axe-Edit out of the equation, does it stop the freezing?
 

chris

Legend!
again, the level of the amp does not "overdrive" the cab at all. some of the other guys on this forum can throw a fancy term that describes the type of blocks they are (non-linear something or other?).

so in your examples, the Level will just be softer. the interaction between amp and cab will not be affected, except again for overall level of both.

the only thing the amp level can overdrive (or any block's level for that matter) is Out1 and Out2 - that's what the clip lights are for.

again, the blocks do not push or drive subsequent blocks any harder due to level. some exceptions are putting a filter block (type:null) in front of an amp and raising the filter level can provide an input gain boost to the amp block; a drive pedal can increase the input gain of the amp block the same way.

so it seems as if the amp block is the only thing that can be "overdriven", but it's the input to that block and nothing else. in the advanced page, there is already an amp input parameter, so you don't really need to boost it any other way.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
again, the level of the amp does not "overdrive" the cab at all. some of the other guys on this forum can throw a fancy term that describes the type of blocks they are (non-linear something or other?).
The cab block is level dependent if the Motor Drive is non-zero. So if you turn up/down the level out of the amp block you may need to compensate by doing the opposite with the Motor Drive.
 

Phostenix

Power User
The cab block is level dependent if the Motor Drive is non-zero. So if you turn up/down the level out of the amp block you may need to compensate by doing the opposite with the Motor Drive.
So, would it be better to use the Level control in the cab block to set overall levels?
 

chris

Legend!
ahh good to know. i never use the motor drive.

i would still suggest using the amp level for patch volume, but maybe i'm just set in my ways.
 

kerrlehr

Experienced
I still have mine where I have had it in my chain for the last 30 years.... 1st at the end of my guitar chord. Before the Axe.

I now also have a second volume which is a mission ep-1 and it is set to AFX-II default volume which controls overall volume while the 1st position volume pedal controls just like a volume knob on your guitar. There is an interaction between the guitar and preamp which I feel can only happen in this location. It is also nice to not have to use your finger to volume change this way.

There isn't a right or wrong here - experiment and see what works best for you.
 

clarky

Axe-Master
for overall preset level I use the fader in the output at the very end of the grid...
everything within the grid I consider to be signal processing and so I use these level controls:
- to prevent clipping within the fx chain
- to control relative levels between individual fx [typically when I'm blending two amp blocks]
- to control signal levels [i.e. controlling the min/max levels when morphing from clean to dirty tones within a preset]

so the overall preset level is never handled by any block within the grid

EDIT: my vol pedal is at the start of the chain and has a very specific task [to provide a controlled amount of level boost when my preset switches to solo mode so the amp generates extra drive]..

if you want a vol block to behave like a typical vol pedal, place it as the first block in the chain
if you want it to behave like a master vol, place it last
if you want it to behave like master vol but do not want to clip reverb / delay tails, place it after the amp but before the reverb / delay blocks..

me? I use a plain Jane volume pedal external to the Axe [guitar -> vol -> wah -> Axe]..
why? I saw no point in consuming an fx block and valuable CPU to provide such a basic task
but then my preset requirements are very specific, block count and CPU intensive..
 
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chris

Legend!
i know right? i was surprised when i said level doesn't affect anything, but he said it does if motor drive is up.
 

RichHowe

Inspired
OK, this is very interesting. I was wondering the same thing and now have a couple of questions.

I'm putting together a bank of all 81 amps with matching cabs all with default settings (that's it, an amp and cab in each preset). I normally play through a real cab with the cab sims turned off. I found that if I set my level where I want it through my cab, once I turn the cab sims on (with no mic and the cab levels all set at 0) my presets clip the output of the Axe. It seems like I need to drop the cab levels around 6db to keep my levels the same when switching between having the cab sims on and off.

Also, while trying to level match the different presets I thought I noticed that the same preset sounded different if I lowered the level in the amp block versus the preset output. It seemed to be very subtle and I spent a lot of time going back and forth comparing those changes. Since there's a slight break in the sound between changing the levels I couldn't tell if it was really different or an auditory illusion. In the end I assumed it was an illusion but now I'm not sure. So I have 2 questions...
  1. Does a cab block with no mic and the level set to 0 really add 6db?
  2. If I have a preset with only an amp block (with motor drive set to 0) and a cab block and I want lower that preset by 20db. Will the preset sound the same regardless of whether I lower the amp block, the cab block or the preset output by 20db?
 
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