Beginner - Need Help

H

hallissyc

Member
Let me first start off by saying I do not own any Fractal Audio equipment, but I am looking to convert from analog to digital soon and need some guidance. I played guitar when I was a kid (age 13-23) and gave it up when my children were born. I went on a ~10 year hiatus until just recently when I purchased an EBMM Cutlass and a Fender Blues Junior (along with a few pedals). When I was playing as a kid, multi-effects was kind of trash, but it appears to have gotten quite a bit better (and more in the main stream).

So I think I jumped the gun a bit with my tube amp, and think I may either sell/return it in order to go in the digital direction. I have looked into the Helix and the Kemper, but I love the bleeding edge nature of the offerings from Fractal. I am on the waiting list for the FM3 and the FX3 (although I think the FX3 might be a bit much for my needs). I am a bedroom player with no aspirations of playing out.

So where should I start? Should I shell the $1500 for a FM3 on Reverb or maybe pick up a used FX8/AX8 and wait for my name to pop for the AXE3?
 
I wouldn't call fractal bleeding edge, industry leader yes but far from bleeding, my AX8 was very stable from the day I got it and each firmware update brought more welcomed surprises and fixes, I would say get a used AX8 if you want something right away as there are quite a few listings for sale now or get on the waiting list for a FM3 or both...
 
What kind of music are you playing and what will you monitor through?

given the wait for the FM3 I’d recommend either the axe 3 or pick up a used helix and wait until your name is called.
 
As far as my current setup (i.e. clean boost and Boss SD-1), nothing is lacking in particular. My issue is that, as I start looking at acquiring more pedals/gear to support my current setup, it's just as cost effective to go digital now. I feel like there is just a ton more flexibility IMMEDIATELY with the digital route than there is with analog pedals and tube amps. This is not to say that my current setup is insufficient...in fact, it's probably overkill for my current abilities. But as I continue to practice and progress, I think that I would benefit from having gear that I can grow in.
 
Jarick said:
What kind of music are you playing and what will you monitor through?

given the wait for the FM3 I’d recommend either the axe 3 or pick up a used helix and wait until your name is called.
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I am playing intervals type music (which is what got me down the digital path). Is the wait for the AXE3 not that long? I just got on the wait list, and I don't see any used.
 
DaveO said:
I wouldn't call fractal bleeding edge, industry leader yes but far from bleeding, my AX8 was very stable from the day I got it and each firmware update brought more welcomed surprises and fixes, I would say get a used AX8 if you want something right away as there are quite a few listings for sale now or get on the waiting list for a FM3 or both...
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I'm on the waiting list for both the FM3 and the AXE-3. I gather that the waiting list for the AXE is shorter than the FM-3?
 
Rublalup said:
Why are you un-happy with you're amp and pedals? what is lacking?
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As far as my current setup (i.e. clean boost and Boss SD-1), nothing is lacking in particular. My issue is that, as I start looking at acquiring more pedals/gear to support my current setup, it's just as cost effective to go digital now. I feel like there is just a ton more flexibility IMMEDIATELY with the digital route than there is with analog pedals and tube amps. This is not to say that my current setup is insufficient...in fact, it's probably overkill for my current abilities. But as I continue to practice and progress, I think that I would benefit from having gear that I can grow in.
 
The AxeFx III waitlist should be much shorter than waiting for an FM3 (you're probably looking at 4-6 weeks for the Axe, as opposed to many months for the FM3), and if you can afford it and you don't need to worry about portability, then I would wait it out and just play your tube amp in the meantime.

The AX8 is great and still sounds fantastic, but the learning curve is steep and the presets need a lot of tweaking. The presets on the Axe III/FM3 seem to sound great right out of the box, and due to a much improved interface, the more advanced/intimidating settings are easier to avoid when you're first getting used to the digital world.

FWIW, Helix, Kemper and Atomic units are awesome as well, but I do feel like Fractal is a step above the competition and worth waiting for.
 
You don't need anything more than a good guitar and amp, until you do, at which case you'll have many reasons to go to one of the digital platforms (is that what we call them, generally?). If your passion tends towards the technology, and having endless discovery possibilities, and you want a small bedroom footprint, and if you have the time for the learning curve, an FM3 with a good powered FRFR speaker is great. That's what I have. I also have an AXE3 in my studio. But if I found myself without gigs and other commercial reasons that I invested in Fractal (ahem), and I just wanted to practice guitar until my fingers bled- in another room I have a '64 Deluxe and a few pedals. All other platforms might change, and come and go, but the guitar into an amp stays until the end!
 
BigBabyBurrito said:
The AxeFx III waitlist should be much shorter than waiting for an FM3 (you're probably looking at 4-6 weeks for the Axe, as opposed to many months for the FM3), and if you can afford it and you don't need to worry about portability, then I would wait it out and just play your tube amp in the meantime.

The AX8 is great and still sounds fantastic, but the learning curve is steep and the presets need a lot of tweaking. The presets on the Axe III/FM3 seem to sound great right out of the box, and due to a much improved interface, the more advanced/intimidating settings are easier to avoid when you're first getting used to the digital world.

FWIW, Helix, Kemper and Atomic units are awesome as well, but I do feel like Fractal is a step above the competition and worth waiting for.
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I appreciate the note. I think you're right. I am just going to continue to wait on my name to get called.
 
JRkelley said:
You don't need anything more than a good guitar and amp, until you do, at which case you'll have many reasons to go to one of the digital platforms (is that what we call them, generally?). If your passion tends towards the technology, and having endless discovery possibilities, and you want a small bedroom footprint, and if you have the time for the learning curve, an FM3 with a good powered FRFR speaker is great. That's what I have. I also have an AXE3 in my studio. But if I found myself without gigs and other commercial reasons that I invested in Fractal (ahem), and I just wanted to practice guitar until my fingers bled- in another room I have a '64 Deluxe and a few pedals. All other platforms might change, and come and go, but the guitar into an amp stays until the end!
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I definitely like my guitar and amp. No question. My problem comes in when you start adding up the price of decent pedals to get the sounds I want out:

Clean Boost - $150
Compression - $150
Overdrive - $100
Distortion - $100
Delay - $150
Reverb - $150
Wah - $150
Tuner - $100

Ok - so on the absolute low end (and some of these prices are probably not even realistic for quality products), I am looking at $1,050 for a basic pedalboard. This is me loading my Sweetwater cart up and being done (I guess). Enter the digital platforms. An HX Stomp is $600, HX Effects is $500, Fractal FM3 is $1,000, etc. And with the digital stuff, I am getting way more than 8 pedals.

I still intend on keeping my tube/analog stuff, but feel like adding something like this would give me capability and I wouldn't be stalking r/guitarpedals everyday...haha.
 
hallissyc said:
I definitely like my guitar and amp. No question. My problem comes in when you start adding up the price of decent pedals to get the sounds I want out:

Clean Boost - $150
Compression - $150
Overdrive - $100
Distortion - $100
Delay - $150
Reverb - $150
Wah - $150
Tuner - $100

Ok - so on the absolute low end (and some of these prices are probably not even realistic for quality products), I am looking at $1,050 for a basic pedalboard. This is me loading my Sweetwater cart up and being done (I guess). Enter the digital platforms. An HX Stomp is $600, HX Effects is $500, Fractal FM3 is $1,000, etc. And with the digital stuff, I am getting way more than 8 pedals.

I still intend on keeping my tube/analog stuff, but feel like adding something like this would give me capability and I wouldn't be stalking r/guitarpedals everyday...haha.
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in that case go for the fm3. The effects are stellar and you can also explore if amp modeling is for you with the best amp modeling in the market
 
hallissyc said:
I definitely like my guitar and amp. No question. My problem comes in when you start adding up the price of decent pedals to get the sounds I want out:

Clean Boost - $150
Compression - $150
Overdrive - $100
Distortion - $100
Delay - $150
Reverb - $150
Wah - $150
Tuner - $100
Click to expand...

Well, if you decided you needed the FC-6 to go along with the FM3, plus an expression pedal to utilize the wah, you are at, what 1800-1900? I own all these things, but I would not have bought them to put in front of a tube amp. The effects are great but require a lot of programming, as well as a lot of experience and setup to change things on the fly at a gig or jam session.
 
JRkelley said:
Well, if you decided you needed the FC-6 to go along with the FM3, plus an expression pedal to utilize the wah, you are at, what 1800-1900? I own all these things, but I would not have bought them to put in front of a tube amp. The effects are great but require a lot of programming, as well as a lot of experience and setup to change things on the fly at a gig or jam session.
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This is fantastic advice - the true cost of ownership (realistically) is ~$2000 (which is incidentally the cost of the AXE-FX III...

Would you recommend a used FX-8? AX-8? I am also partial to the HX Stomp for incorporation into my current tube amp/2x pedals. Or would you just cruise with the tube amp for a while?
 
hallissyc said:
This is fantastic advice - the true cost of ownership (realistically) is ~$2000 (which is incidentally the cost of the AXE-FX III...

Would you recommend a used FX-8? AX-8? I am also partial to the HX Stomp for incorporation into my current tube amp/2x pedals. Or would you just cruise with the tube amp for a while?
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I would say to target the FM3.

It can easily be used with or without the tube amp.

It has a built-in set of switches and it's undergoing continual development.

The AX-8 and FX-8 are discontinued and you're probably going to pay a similar price for a used AX-8 (with no warranty or future updates or bug fixes) as you will for a new FM3.

There are many digital multi-effects units out there that you can use with your tube amp that might get the job done for you... Only you can make the call. But NONE of them comes with the support and interest of Fractal as a company nor with a user community like this one ;)
 
You can easily use an FM3 with any amp, however, for the effects list and usage that the he mentions, an FM3 isn't what comes to mind in terms of a recommendation, guitarist to guitarist. Sure, it is a Fractal forum, and the FM3 is obvious choice if you chose a Fractal product. Reading the OP, it seems like 90% of his requirement is for a multi-effector, and while the FM3 effects are great, why start there? Considering not just the cost, but how actually different it is so use these effects, and the actual learning curve, etc. But yeah, the cost. With an $1800 budget for effects and the incredible amount of high quality used gear out there, and the limited number of effects in his initial post?
 
JRkelley said:
You can easily use an FM3 with any amp, however, for the effects list and usage that the he mentions, an FM3 isn't what comes to mind in terms of a recommendation, guitarist to guitarist. Sure, it is a Fractal forum, and the FM3 is obvious choice if you chose a Fractal product. Reading the OP, it seems like 90% of his requirement is for a multi-effector, and while the FM3 effects are great, why start there? Considering not just the cost, but how actually different it is so use these effects, and the actual learning curve, etc. But yeah, the cost. With an $1800 budget for effects and the incredible amount of high quality used gear out there, and the limited number of effects in his initial post?
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What's your recommendation as for my way ahead? Stick with my tube amp and pick up used pedals to meet my needs for the effects described in my initial post? I guess I was just interested in kind of a "blank check" in terms of an effects box. To this end, I have looked into Line 6 products (i.e. HX Effects, HX Stomp), which are easily half the price. But I am also not interested in buying something to get my feet wet, only to outgrow it and want more down the line. That type of stuff tends to cost more money than if I were to just buy the best thing right now.

But I am open to suggestions - are you partial to the Line 6 stuff for a player in my position?
 
unix-guy said:
I would say to target the FM3.

It can easily be used with or without the tube amp.

It has a built-in set of switches and it's undergoing continual development.

The AX-8 and FX-8 are discontinued and you're probably going to pay a similar price for a used AX-8 (with no warranty or future updates or bug fixes) as you will for a new FM3.

There are many digital multi-effects units out there that you can use with your tube amp that might get the job done for you... Only you can make the call. But NONE of them comes with the support and interest of Fractal as a company nor with a user community like this one ;)
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This was kind of my thought - especially with how quickly technology moves. Frankly, I am slightly worried that, by the time my name gets called for an FM3, they will have already moved onto their next product. But I agree, target the most up-to-date technology, which is why I am most interested in Fractal's current offerings...and is why I am actually kind of torn. I am looking at Line 6 products as well as Kemper products.
 
hallissyc said:
Frankly, I am slightly worried that, by the time my name gets called for an FM3, they will have already moved onto their next product.
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The lifespan of Fractal devices is pretty long. I don't think that particular fear should bother you.
 
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