Bedroom Players Vs. "Pros" & the Blanket complaint

OwenTheBrit

OwenTheBrit

Member
I have had 1 week with the Axe Fx II and my search for some kind of happiness with it has lead me to many posts that mention the "Blanket" issue....So my topic for discussion is...Do you think the Blanket Issue is experienced mainly by people like myself, who are OK musicians, been in a band or two & play out twice a year, but have spent most of their lives playing in the bedroom using cheap solid state amps (dreaming of wearing chains and a cool bandanna). Are we buying the Axe to try to recreate studio Hi-Fi guitar solo's which might be unrealistic ?
(personally going for Petrucci - "This is the Life" sound)

And on the other hand are people that are feeling the joy, guys who have been around a bit, played more at high volume, always with tubes and understand the differences between playing in your bedroom and a room with 100 people in it, and/or real recording ?

My old rig is ....Ibanez JS1200 & Egen18, Digitech Rp1000, Crate Power Block ( no don't laugh...its sounds good). The reason I bought the Axe Fx is I want more. more Sustain , more HiFi, more creamy smoothness, more Tightness at the bottom end...more, more, more...I'm an average to good guitar player...By some gear to make me better ...Right ?

At the moment I'm not exceeding my old sound and i'm exhausted from tweaking & reading posts ! , I don't seem to play guitar anymore...I'm just trying to not sound crap, like I am 13 again, playing "Smoke on the Water" through my Dad's old record player amp.

So please chip in and continue the conversation...but this post has 2 purposes
1. A great discussion which should provide learning to all
2. I NEED HELP !!!!!!! ...advice ...a mentor , patches, IR's...anything

Thanks Guys
Owen


Playing the Axe through KRK Studio Monitors or a PA System ...Both with disappointing results
Pro Tools for recording
Ibanez JS1200
Ibanez Egen18
Ibanez Jem
 
Let's start with a question: what is the blanket effect and how is it different from you just not putting enough treble in to your patches when you dial them up?

I can't say I've ever played with a blanket over an amp, so I'm not sure what it'd sound like but I can guess it'd sound like there's not enough high end content. So is that the problem you're experiencing and want help addressing?
 
@OwenTheBrit I can sympathize with not getting the results you want or were expecting.

I am one who has played a lot of live shows for many years, starting in the late 1970's.

I really enjoy playing my Fractal at very reasonable volume in my home studio. It is fun and I don't feel like I need to crank up to get the best tone or to really utilize the Fractal.

In fact, it is the opposite.

A lot of real amps require settings that result in extreme volume before the amp is in the "sweet spot" as they say.

With the Fractal the overall volume is independent of things like the master volume and the virtual "sweet spot".

The key with the Fractal is know what you are hearing and why. Then you can develop some skills at which parameters will get you from where you are to where you want to be.

If you are struggling a bit, I would recommend finding some amp models that are very forgiving and sound pretty good to you at their default settings.

Use one of the tried and true factory IR's.

Try auditioning a amp and cab only preset. Use one of the ML 4x12 factory IR's.

Change nothing but the amp model and the input gain.

Audition different amps until you find one that sounds pretty good. Then stick with it and begin to explore the tone stack and other features.

I use exactly two amp models right now for all my live shows. The Bandmaster and Soldano. I still feel like the Fractal is great for what I do despite not using or even really exploring a hundred or more of the available amp models.
 
I found the best way to really test your patches is to get your normal bands PA in a rehearsal studio and listen to how they sound through the PA board and speakers. I was happy to discover that they were pretty bang on with what I was hearing through my Matrix Q12s (FRFR) powered by a Matrix GT1000fx. With the Q12s cranked in my basement I can be pretty much guaranteed the same tone through the live PA which gives me the confidence to dial in these tones at home. I don't have that so called blanket effect, and you should be able to dial that out with presence, treble, parametric eq etc, plenty of options.
 
iaresee said:
Let's start with a question: what is the blanket effect and how is it different from you just not putting enough treble in to your patches when you dial them up?

I can't say I've ever played with a blanket over an amp, so I'm not sure what it'd sound like but I can guess it'd sound like there's not enough high end content. So is that the problem you're experiencing and want help addressing?
Click to expand...



Yes partly. If I increase the high end, I just seem to increase the fizz, If i reduce the low end I just seem to make the sound thin. Part of the question and purpose of the post if to see if the sound in my head is unrealistic (with any gear).

But yes to answer your question, that is part of the problem I am experiencing. I want this patch (attached) to have more sustain and be smoother but keeping a bit of Hi-Fi in it with a tight bottom end ( who doesn't want that!)
 

Attachments

  • Best So Far 4.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 10
barhrecords said:
@OwenTheBrit I can sympathize with not getting the results you want or were expecting.

I am one who has played a lot of live shows for many years, starting in the late 1970's.

I really enjoy playing my Fractal at very reasonable volume in my home studio. It is fun and I don't feel like I need to crank up to get the best tone or to really utilize the Fractal.

In fact, it is the opposite.

A lot of real amps require settings that result in extreme volume before the amp is in the "sweet spot" as they say.

With the Fractal the overall volume is independent of things like the master volume and the virtual "sweet spot".

The key with the Fractal is know what you are hearing and why. Then you can develop some skills at which parameters will get you from where you are to where you want to be.

If you are struggling a bit, I would recommend finding some amp models that are very forgiving and sound pretty good to you at their default settings.

Use one of the tried and true factory IR's.

Try auditioning a amp and cab only preset. Use one of the ML 4x12 factory IR's.

Change nothing but the amp model and the input gain.

Audition different amps until you find one that sounds pretty good. Then stick with it and begin to explore the tone stack and other features.

I use exactly two amp models right now for all my live shows. The Bandmaster and Soldano. I still feel like the Fractal is great for what I do despite not using or even really exploring a hundred or more of the available amp models.
Click to expand...


I bought the cab pack 7 ...which helped a little...I will try your advice thanks
 
guitvai1 said:
I found the best way to really test your patches is to get your normal bands PA in a rehearsal studio and listen to how they sound through the PA board and speakers. I was happy to discover that they were pretty bang on with what I was hearing through my Matrix Q12s (FRFR) powered by a Matrix GT1000fx. With the Q12s cranked in my basement I can be pretty much guaranteed the same tone through the live PA which gives me the confidence to dial in these tones at home. I don't have that so called blanket effect, and you should be able to dial that out with presence, treble, parametric eq etc, plenty of options.
Click to expand...


My plan is to buy the Matrix & FRFR Speaker eventually ...but I'm still trying to decide whether to keep the Axe. I dont really play in a band environment anymore ...its more about the joy of playing at home and hearing that tone that makes the hairs on your neck stand up. Thanks for your post ...I may set up in the Garage tomorrow and crank it all up a bit to see what it sounds like.
 
Here is my best effort so far. If any of your guys who have replied want to load it up and tweak it ( and re-post) or comment on it that would be great. ... this is with Factory Cab (but I do have Mikko's Cab Pack 7 also)
I am after smooth, tight sound with enough high end to sound studio like ...but without the fizz
 

Attachments

  • Best So Far 4.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 13
I've always enjoyed my amps, both at home volume (probably louder than should of been, sorry to neighbors) and gig volume. I now enjoy my Axe II just as much, and it sounds great at any volume (neighbors should of chipped in cash for it lol)

I still find real world amps sound great too when I play them at buddies places, though obviously some amps are going to sound better than others. My buddies Fender DR for example sounds great at plenty of volume levels. His Mode Four Marshall sounds pretty good at low volume but when we crank it up a bit its a little more fun.

I've pretty much always thought my gear can get a great tone. My chops aren't always up to snuff, but I know the gear can sound good.

Just look at those Larry Mitchell clips, dude sounds amazing through a range of amps, both affordable stuff and more high end, and he also sounds just as amazing with his Axe models of that gear. Doesn't matter the volume, doesn't matter that amp. Dude with skills like that is going to produce beautiful music no matter what.

Its essentially the old I bought all this gear and didn't sound like so and so, and then I bought all new gear and still don't sound like so and so. Its not the gear I'm afraid. "So and so" would sound like themselves playing your rig. I've watched Zakk Wylde play a Epiphone through a little practice amp and it was as killer of solo as a studio track from No More Tears album.

Back to Larry Mitchell okay..... You've got access to his patches, and his IR's, and clips of his tone playing those very same patches/ir's. If you don't sound like him, then its not the gear, its that you can't play like him. Its cool, I can't either, few can, but if he came over to my house (Your welcome anytime Larry!), grabbed my guitars, loaded his presets onto my Axe II, and starting jamming, there is zero question that the tone would be awesome.

Long story short, stop blaming your tools
 
I took a quick look. I see you are using the USA lead for the amp. Personally, for Petrucci'ish tones I usually don't go for that amp but rather one of the IIC+ models or rectos (for older stuff circa Awake). I see what you mean about the high freqs.

My suggestions: enable that compressor block, studio comp, to get a bit more perceived sustain that you are looking for (may have to adjust gate settings depending on how loud you are playing). Second, perhaps disable the drive block or try a different model with less drive; use the amp basic settings and try raising the input/overdrive there. Then audition more cabs until you start getting closer (I personally set the mic to null at this step when using ML cab packs). Once you find a better cab for your desired tone, then go back and adjust presence, depth, EQ, and the rest of the amp settings.

If you want to smooth out the tone a bit more still, try to increase the Xformer Match up to 1.2-1.3, and play with Pwr Amp Hardness (decrease). There are a couple of other advanced params I usually tweak but it's tough to suggest much more than that without hearing what you are hearing in your head:)
 
lqdsnddist said:
I've pretty much always thought my gear can get a great tone. My chops aren't always up to snuff, but I know the gear can sound good.
Click to expand...

My chops aren't always up to snuff either, this is why I bought the Axe, and why we all by gear, because the right gear makes us sound better.
I am just currently in a place where the gear (or at least the way i have it set up) is making me sound not good, no sustain , no chance of legato or arpeggios ( or practicing my awful technique ;)). I have no doubt the Axe Fx is way more awesome than I am. Part of the reason for my post is to see if my exceptions of it are realistic. I have come to the conclusion that if i cant get that sound with this thing...then "I cant get that sound"....
I will look into the Larry Marshall stuff
Thanks for you post mate !
 
I'll check your preset tonight. FWIW "fizz" is often what helps you stand out in a mix. When you solo the tone it might not sound right but in context it'll sit better.

That's a general rule of course. Not hard and fast.
 
I was in the same boat as you, and with tweaking, incluidng global eq, IR's , starting from SCRATCH, not others presets , I found all the sound I could ever want, in my office, with 2 ev livex 122p. No blanket. Tons of gain and sustain. Love DT.
 
Here is a patch I use now and then that demonstrates a lot of what I was trying to describe in my advice earlier. It's a recto model, but decent sustain and fairly smooth esp on the neck pickup (I use JP6 BFR primarily). If it's closer to what you are looking for maybe swap out the amp and cab and build off of it. If you are hell bent on using the USA Lead model, perhaps I can find time to tweak more later tonight.

Edit: I just remembered I had made this patch originally for the "Match the Master" competition last year. It started off as a patch for the "A New Beginning" track but have since made a few adjustments and changed out the delay and verb types. I just exported it using the factory Petrucci cab for compatibility.

Oh yeah, XL+ here in case you need to convert with fractool
 

Attachments

  • Recto2 Solo.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 35
Last edited:
Etudica said:
I took a quick look. I see you are using the USA lead for the amp. Personally, for Petrucci'ish tones I usually don't go for that amp but rather one of the IIC+ models or rectos (for older stuff circa Awake). I see what you mean about the high freqs.

My suggestions: enable that compressor block, studio comp, to get a bit more perceived sustain that you are looking for (may have to adjust gate settings depending on how loud you are playing). Second, perhaps disable the drive block or try a different model with less drive; use the amp basic settings and try raising the input/overdrive there. Then audition more cabs until you start getting closer (I personally set the mic to null at this step when using ML cab packs). Once you find a better cab for your desired tone, then go back and adjust presence, depth, EQ, and the rest of the amp settings.

If you want to smooth out the tone a bit more still, try to increase the Xformer Match up to 1.2-1.3, and play with Pwr Amp Hardness (decrease). There are a couple of other advanced params I usually tweak but it's tough to suggest much more than that without hearing what you are hearing in your head:)
Click to expand...

Great advice...i'm tweaking right now....feel free to share the advanced stuff
 
symphx said:
I was in the same boat as you, and with tweaking, incluidng global eq, IR's , starting from SCRATCH, not others presets , I found all the sound I could ever want, in my office, with 2 ev livex 122p. No blanket. Tons of gain and sustain. Love DT.
Click to expand...
Makes me hopeful & that's part of what i need..cheers mate !!!!!
 
Since different guitars can yield different results, can you record a sample using the 'Best So Far 4' preset to give me some idea what you're hearing on your end?

Incidentally, I've found the blanket phenomena is largely affected by how a patch is EQ'd. Raising the fundamental frequency can often resolve it. I mean, switching IRs will have a huge impact, but I can generally fix a muffled tone quickly without hunting for IRs just by tweaking the high-end using EQ.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom