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Bass using FRFR

Quick question for all you bass players out there.

I have a pair of Yamaha DXR-12s. If I use a bass through the AXE FX using an appropriate bass IR, will this damage my DXR-12s? The principal of FRFR tells me that would not harm them, but with the lower frequencies generated by a bass, just wondering if this could be an issue?

Has anyone done this type of set-up with good results?

Thanks in advance,
Jean.
 

Tone Control

Inspired
I think you should be OK. for live you might want a sub too if you want to shake people
I spend a lot of time telling people to get a sub if they are running less than 8 inch studio monitors, but yours are 12 inch PA drivers
If you do add a sub, try to lower the bottom end on the FRFR drivers

I mainly play guitar, but my AF2 sounds great through a studio monitor + sub setup
 
I think you should be OK. for live you might want a sub too if you want to shake people
I spend a lot of time telling people to get a sub if they are running less than 8 inch studio monitors, but yours are 12 inch PA drivers
If you do add a sub, try to lower the bottom end on the FRFR drivers

I mainly play guitar, but my AF2 sounds great through a studio monitor + sub setup
Yes, good point. I was thinking of adding a sub as well. With the new bass amps in the Axe FX 2, it now seems that adding a bass to my instruments, without having to invest into a bass amp is now in the realm of possibilities.

Thanks.
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
I've been FRFR with the AxeFx and various types of speakers, most recently a pair of CLR active wedges. Here's my 2 cents:

- context matters... a LOT...the material you're playing, overall stage volume, size of room, type of bass tone, PA system, etc.

- if you are carrying the room with your FR bass rig, you will need to determine whether your pair will do the job, or if the bass sound disappears as you walk the room. For some gigs they may be fine - others maybe not. These speakers are designed assuming that, for high output levels below 100hz, you'll be employing an external subwoofer. And it all depends on what you find acceptable for a bass tone. Some players roll off significantly in the low end to make room for kick drum (more mid presence than air pushing sub freqs). OTOH, if you're wanting to push the fundamental frequencies of your low bass notes, don't be surprised if you are underwhelmed with the results as volume goes up. It works for some, not so well for others. FR top end cabinets generally don't "move air" the same way bass guitar cabinets do.

- If you have ample FOH support with subwoofers, then you only need to worry about being heard on stage, in which case I think you'll be fine with 2 of these.

- the DXR-12 has a built in multiband compression circuit that should help to make sure you don't fry the speakers.

- the lower frequencies of a bass instrument are the most demanding on an amplifier and speaker system. If neither are designed to accommodate high output (and generally, satellite speakers are not), then you will usually hit a brick wall where the speakers are lose effectiveness, again, with higher SPL below 100hz.

- for situations where there is only FOH support for vocals alone, and with a loud drummer and guitarist (or other players), I personally like to add a dedicated powered subwoofer to rattle some pant leg. It just feels more "right" to me and fills the room with low end to round out the overall sound. YMMV.
 
^^^ What jimfist said....

I'd also suggest experimenting with a multiband compressor in the chain after the cab block. The low end of the bass is the bit that can get away from you and push your speakers hard, so putting some compression down there can help to tighten up the signal and keep it in check. Especially true if you play a 5 string and like to grab a low D, C or B...

Karma
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
One thing I've found helpful when I don't use a subwoofer is this: in the amp block, engage the Bass Cut switch, and then regain some of the low end back (to taste) using one or more of the following: Bass (tone knob) parameter; Depth (pg. 2); Graphic EQ; Thunk. Also depending on the IR you are using in the Cab Block, the proximity, mic selection, and the Speaker Drive can all be used to shape the tone a bit.

Compression is also a big part of taming the beast, as karmakarmakarma has mentioned. You can also mess with the amp block Compression parameter (+/- noon setting) as well as the dynamics parameter (noon +/-), or any of the compressor blocks in the Axefx. Compression is tricky, though, and a topic all to itself. Unless you're really good already at understanding compression, you may want to take your time in that department. There are some decent bass compressor stomps (hardware) out there, and I'm hoping to see one of these modeled at some point, just to streamline the process of getting settings more easily. Much of the time I'll put a front end Pedal 2 comp, with slow attack, fast release, and sustain set below 1.00, and with emphasis on around noon. Multiband Comp is cool, but it can be tricky setting it so that the bass doesn't completely go away. IIRC, the low band frequency bottoms out at 120hz (see edit below) which IMHO is a bit too high for my liking for the purpose of eliminating speaker flub... been wishing they'd broaden the sweep on both bands a bit, to help out bassists a little more...I digress.

It really is a fine balancing act unless you are using a FRFR cabinet that is properly designed to handle such low end, or without adding a sub. One of my arsenal of full range cabinets is loaded with a 15" high power handling coaxial (Ciare, passive, bi-amp only), loaded into a bona fide bass guitar cabinet. Tons of low end (sometimes too much, if you can believe it, especially in the back of the room). However, this cabinet is the furthest thing from flat response, but it's a helluva loud rig that is relatively compact (I've got 2 of these cabs). And being a bass cabinet, it really does retain a lot of traditional bass cabinet feel, compared to regular powered PA tops and subs. They weren't inexpensive, either. FWIW.

edit: the the low band crossover freq is fine, down to 50hz....it's the mid to hi band that bottoms out at 1000hz that I'd like to see go lower. apologies.
 
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One thing I've found helpful when I don't use a subwoofer is this: in the amp block, engage the Bass Cut switch, and then regain some of the low end back (to taste) using one or more of the following: Bass (tone knob) parameter; Depth (pg. 2); Graphic EQ; Thunk. Also depending on the IR you are using in the Cab Block, the proximity, mic selection, and the Speaker Drive can all be used to shape the tone a bit.

Compression is also a big part of taming the beast, as karmakarmakarma has mentioned. You can also mess with the amp block Compression parameter (+/- noon setting) as well as the dynamics parameter (noon +/-), or any of the compressor blocks in the Axefx. Compression is tricky, though, and a topic all to itself. Unless you're really good already at understanding compression, you may want to take your time in that department. There are some decent bass compressor stomps (hardware) out there, and I'm hoping to see one of these modeled at some point, just to streamline the process of getting settings more easily. Much of the time I'll put a front end Pedal 2 comp, with slow attack, fast release, and sustain set below 1.00, and with emphasis on around noon. Multiband Comp is cool, but it can be tricky setting it so that the bass doesn't completely go away. IIRC, the low band frequency bottoms out at 120hz, which IMHO is a bit too high for my liking for the purpose of eliminating speaker flub... been wishing they'd broaden the sweep on both bands a bit, to help out bassists a little more...I digress.

It really is a fine balancing act unless you are using a FRFR cabinet that is properly designed to handle such low end, or without adding a sub. One of my arsenal of full range cabinets is loaded with a 15" high power handling coaxial (Ciare, passive, bi-amp only), loaded into a bona fide bass guitar cabinet. Tons of low end (sometimes too much, if you can believe it, especially in the back of the room). However, this cabinet is the furthest thing from flat response, but it's a helluva loud rig that is relatively compact (I've got 2 of these cabs). And being a bass cabinet, it really does retain a lot of traditional bass cabinet feel, compared to regular powered PA tops and subs. They weren't inexpensive, either. FWIW.
Thanks much for all the feedback, very reassuring and also leading me towards getting a good sub!
 
^^^ What jimfist said....

I'd also suggest experimenting with a multiband compressor in the chain after the cab block. The low end of the bass is the bit that can get away from you and push your speakers hard, so putting some compression down there can help to tighten up the signal and keep it in check. Especially true if you play a 5 string and like to grab a low D, C or B...

Karma
Thanks, I will experiment with the multiband compressor as well, very good tip!
 
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