Back to the drawing board

Tremonti

Tremonti

Fractal Fanatic
Here's my dilemma....been a user of Fractal since 2008. I have a Axe Fx II XL and use it in my cover band that plays Maroon 5 to AC/DC to The Weekend to Eminem. I have over 70 patches and need to streamline things by limiting things(start using global amps and keep them limited say a Fender Twin, EVH 100w red. Vox type and a Mesa Dual Rec).

Anyone do this and have some guidance or the before and after effects to share? It is hard to get patches to all sound even in volume and dynamics when I just wing every patch and not demand consistency. Any advice is welcomed! Thanks ladies and gents!
 
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I do the same thing in my band. I have a preset for each song. I have found the Fractal presets are VERY close in volume. I have been using them as the base and swap effects with ones not used in the loop. With a couple of exceptions I am pretty close volume wise
 
Hi. I've reduced Preset-per-song shows to as little as a single preset for an entire show. There are pros and cons to both. A couple of things come to mind for what you're after.

Great idea to reduce amp block use to 4. I would apply this to the cab block as well. Then make each of these blocks global blocks for easy updating in the future.

A good practice, if you haven't already done so, is to make yourself a standard template of your signal path where the blocks are in the same positions from preset to preset. (positions in layout view). This can help reduce latency when switching from preset to preset. Save that as a template and make new presets from that template.

If the latency is minimal, you could create presets per sound. Such as: Clean pop, Clean bluesy, Overdrive Rhythm, Overdrive Chorus, Solo Blues, Solo Hard Rock, etc. You'd set up your pedalboard to switch to a new preset per sound. The other scenes could have variations like chorus, phase, delay, etc.

A different way to go is to make as few presets as possible. One preset might be Crystal Clean to Metal Solo, another might be Semi-Clean to Blues Wah Solo. etc. I've used this route a lot and prefer it. It reduces latency by staying within one preset per song. I used to use up most of my CPU headroom, but then I started using no more than one Cab Block per preset and that helped. And, most cover songs are going to fit into one of the presets you create.

Use your output meter on the Utility Menu to monitor output levels. Choose your Amp/Cab combinations and then level out the volumes. Note that some Cabs have lower outputs. I high pass bass frequencies on the Cab Block anywhere from 80 to 100 cycles. Afterwards, level the outputs from preset to preset. I go for "0" on the meter. Solos are 1 to 3 dB louder.

One last note: For my cover band show, I stopped trying to imitate exact sounds from covers and just made one great sound of my own of each of the categories I was going for. This works way better for me because I'm performing the songs through my own "voice" and the feel of the guitar is exactly how I want it.
 
Start with your favorite patch, or if you have one you use for more than 1 song. Turn it up to the level that you would use it in a live situation, and make sure it is as close to perfect as you would like it to be. Then, open your 2nd most used patch ( if there is one), or next patch in general. Do the same as the 1st patch, with getting it the way it needs to sound at playing level. Then use theVU meters in the utility section of the Axe to matech the volume levels...being careful to play as aggressive you would live. Trust the meters and your ears to get them to a fairly close level...then repeat with the next patch. Joe
 
Get like 3 main patches (I have a plexi, Recto and Vox). Load all the effects you can into them. Then have just a few for special songs that don’t fit. (like I have one for when I need a whammy pedal).
 
I am a new user of fractal (AX8) and also in a cover band.

I have a block library that I save blocks of my configured amps and effects that I use a lot. I just export blocks to disk.

I then make several ‘pedal boards’ for my main sounds that will get re-used a lot in my songs. Ie. fender board, hi gain board, acoustic, mandolin. I use the blocks when building the boards for a consistent starting point for amp and effect settings. I level most things to the ‘zero’ line on the hardware VU meters.

I then create patches for almost every song where I use (copy) one of the ‘boards’ and just configure the scenes for verse, chorus, bridge effects of the specific song so I don’t have to stomp so much.

I maintain a spreadsheet of boards and block configs as well so I don’t lose track of what is what.
 
Like many others I play in a covers band. With around 100 songs in our repertoire there is no way I’m going to have one patch per song. In fact I struggle with more than five. That’s partly to avoid having to change banks on my foot pedal. It also makes things easier when I make a change that I want to propagate across all patches, such as when Cliff comes up with a new chorus. Yes, I’ve got lots more patches hanging around, but they’re development models or older versions kept for reference. Live I use five.

The tricks for me, and I see for a number of others are:
1. Use standard layouts.
2. Minimise the number of AMPs and CABs you use. I use the same Cab on all patches
3. Don’t try to copy the exact equipment that the original artist used for the recording. Chances are he doesn’t use it live anyway.
4. Use your output meter on the Utility Menu to get close on output levels, then tweak after a gig or rehearsal.
5. Use Scenes and/or IAs to turn effects off and on within each patch.
 
I got to agree with Roland..

just a thought...
why not just have presets for clean, low gain, mid-gain and hi-gain
and use those for the entire set
you'll have consistent tone throughout, which in my opinion is more important than a 100% faithful recreation of the tone on the album
and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches and needless effort in the event of a major fw upgrade

I doubt the audience will notice at all
they'll just hear a great sounding guitarist doing his thing..

edit: thinking on it.. lo-gain and mid-gain I'd do with the same amp
I'd pop a vol block in front and either:
- have a mid-gain tone and use the vol for cool off the signal entering the amp to lo-gain
- have a lo-gain tone and use the vol to boost the signal to mid-gain

it's easier to control.. no X-Y switching etc
 
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So what's your dilemma exactly? Too many patches lacking consistency? Well you're covering a wide array of sounds from AC/DC to Eminem? I thought that was the beauty of this machine. Also check your band mates; sometimes they drown us out and we think WE lost OUR volume.
 
clarky said:
I got to agree with Roland..

just a thought...
why not just have presets for clean, low gain, mid-gain and hi-gain
and use those for the entire set
you'll have consistent tone throughout, which in my opinion is more important than a 100% faithful recreation of the tone on the album
and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches and needless effort in the event of a major fw upgrade

I doubt the audience will notice at all
they'll just hear a great sounding guitarist doing his thing..

edit: thinking on it.. lo-gain and mid-gain I'd do with the same amp
I'd pop a vol block in front and either:
- have a mid-gain tone and use the vol for cool off the signal entering the amp to lo-gain
- have a lo-gain tone and use the vol to boost the signal to mid-gain

it's easier to control.. no X-Y switching etc
Click to expand...

thinking on it a bit more.. lo-gain and mid-gain I'd do with the same amp
I'd pop a vol block in front and have a mid-gain tone and use the vol for cool off the signal entering the amp to lo-gain

gainier amps are easier to 'un-cook' and keep control over / re-sculpt the tone
 
I played 80 song sets with 2 amps. I had a preset for each song but that was just so the fx/bpm were right.
 
keep in mind that while our guitar tone might change from song to song to match the original tone... the rest of your band is NOT changing tones to compensate for that. the snare isn't changing song to song, the bass tone isn't changing to fill in the frequencies that are now missing or present in your guitar tone, the kick isn't re-eq'd to keep away from the different guitar low end.

when a song is recorded and mixed, all the components are adjusted for a full sounding result. if i took a tone from one song and put it in some other band's song, even though both tones were mixed and mastered... they don't necessarily work with any ol' song.

create a few tones and sounds with your own band, then use those few tones for all the songs you play and it will instantly sound cohesive.
 
chris said:
keep in mind that while our guitar tone might change from song to song to match the original tone... the rest of your band is NOT changing tones to compensate for that. the snare isn't changing song to song, the bass tone isn't changing to fill in the frequencies that are now missing or present in your guitar tone, the kick isn't re-eq'd to keep away from the different guitar low end.

when a song is recorded and mixed, all the components are adjusted for a full sounding result. if i took a tone from one song and put it in some other band's song, even though both tones were mixed and mastered... they don't necessarily work with any ol' song.

create a few tones and sounds with your own band, then use those few tones for all the songs you play and it will instantly sound cohesive.
Click to expand...
True. I'm going to simplify things in the next week. Start from scratch and have more consistency and ease.
 
chris said:
keep in mind that while our guitar tone might change from song to song to match the original tone... the rest of your band is NOT changing tones to compensate for that. the snare isn't changing song to song, the bass tone isn't changing to fill in the frequencies that are now missing or present in your guitar tone, the kick isn't re-eq'd to keep away from the different guitar low end.

when a song is recorded and mixed, all the components are adjusted for a full sounding result. if i took a tone from one song and put it in some other band's song, even though both tones were mixed and mastered... they don't necessarily work with any ol' song.

create a few tones and sounds with your own band, then use those few tones for all the songs you play and it will instantly sound cohesive.
Click to expand...

totally ! ! !
which is exactly why I'd go for just 3 or 4 basic amp tones
that's pretty much enough to recreate the general flavour of any song and the board's overall tonality remains cohesive throughout the entire show...
 
Thinking of using say a Fender for Clean, Vox for Grit, Marshall type for Crunch and a Mesa for Modern Gain. Limiting to those and then having all layouts be the exact same in the grid(minus a couple weird type patches). Probably going to run mono instead of stereo now too. I'm bringing the rig home tonight and will keep you all posted of my successes and troubles.
 
Tremonti said:
Thinking of using say a Fender for Clean, Vox for Grit, Marshall type for Crunch and a Mesa for Modern Gain. Limiting to those and then having all layouts be the exact same in the grid(minus a couple weird type patches). Probably going to run mono instead of stereo now too. I'm bringing the rig home tonight and will keep you all posted of my successes and troubles.
Click to expand...

whilst you're in experimentation mode.. try these..
clean amp
lo-gain / mid-gain amp [using a vol block to reduce the gain of the amp]
hi-gain amp for solos

if you can get away with it
a lo-gain amp that will clean up really well via a vol block
a hi-gain amp that'll drop to mid-gain via a vol block
this means only 2 amps, no X-Y switching, absolutely pristine seamless and immediate tone transitions
 
clarky said:
whilst you're in experimentation mode.. try these..
clean amp
lo-gain / mid-gain amp [using a vol block to reduce the gain of the amp]
hi-gain amp for solos

if you can get away with it
a lo-gain amp that will clean up really well via a vol block
a hi-gain amp that'll drop to mid-gain via a vol block
this means only 2 amps, no X-Y switching, absolutely pristine seamless and immediate tone transitions
Click to expand...
Good idea but only for patches that don't have an effects change from one to the other. Thanks!
 
Tremonti said:
Good idea but only for patches that don't have an effects change from one to the other. Thanks!
Click to expand...

what makes you say that???
you can switch in / out fx and change tone at the same time..
that's what scenes are for..

example:
scene1 amp1 clean: hint of reverb / compressor / vol block to cut -8dB for cleaning the lo-gain amp
scene2 amp1 lo-gain: tiny hint of reverb, vol bypass [thru], comp bypass [thru]
scene3 amp2 mid-gain: tiny hint of reverb / compressor / vol block to cut -8dB for cleaning the hi-gain amp
scene4 amp2 hi-gain: plenty reverb, vol bypass [thru], comp bypass [thru], delay active
you can add another 4 scenes with modulation fx etc combinations so the scene change does everything [one touch]

when amp1 is active, amp2 is bypass=mute [and vice versa]

you control the strength of the reverb by assigning a 'scene controller' to the reverb 'input gain' [and you can to the same to the delay if you wish with the other 'scene controller'

ad-hoc fx assign to other switches
reverb and delay tails will not get clipped [set bypass=mute fx in if in series or mute in if in parallel]
all of your tones in a single preset
and if another song requires some different fx combinations, copy the preset, strip out what you don't add and add in the differences..
one preset gets you through the bulk of the set, a few other presets to handle the exceptions..
imagine a set of 20 songs.. your main preset will handle 14 of them,
another [copy modified copy of it] can handle 4 songs, and 2 songs require 1 each..
4 presets in total all birthed from the master preset..
consistent tones, feel, levels, fx settings etc.. much easier to manage
 
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clarky said:
what makes you say that???
you can switch in / out fx and change tone at the same time..
that's what scenes are for..

example:
scene1 amp1 clean: hint of reverb / compressor / vol block to cut -8dB for cleaning the lo-gain amp
scene2 amp1 lo-gain: tiny hint of reverb, vol bypass [thru], comp bypass [thru]
scene3 amp2 mid-gain: tiny hint of reverb / compressor / vol block to cut -8dB for cleaning the hi-gain amp
scene4 amp2 hi-gain: plenty reverb, vol bypass [thru], comp bypass [thru], delay active
you can add another 4 scenes with modulation fx etc combinations so the scene change does everything [one touch]

when amp1 is active, amp2 is bypass=mute [and vice versa]

you control the strength of the reverb by assigning a 'scene controller' to the reverb 'input gain' [and you can to the same to the delay if you wish with the other 'scene controller'

ad-hoc fx assign to other switches
reverb and delay tails will not get clipped [set bypass=mute fx in if in series or mute in if in parallel]
all of your tones in a single preset
and if another song requires some different fx combinations, copy the preset, strip out what you don't add and add in the differences..
one preset gets you through the bulk of the set, a few other presets to handle the exceptions..
imagine a set of 20 songs.. your main preset will handle 14 of them,
another [copy modified copy of it] can handle 4 songs, and 2 songs require 1 each..
4 presets in total all birthed from the master preset..
consistent tones, feel, levels, fx settings etc.. much easier to manage
Click to expand...
Gotcha...yes this would work.....although I've never done scenes. I'll give them a go though.....Thank bro!
 
Tremonti said:
Gotcha...yes this would work.....although I've never done scenes. I'll give them a go though.....Thank bro!
Click to expand...

no prob matey...
whatever you want to know about scenes just shout.. we'll all pile in..

they are much easier than you think.. and extremely powerful
 
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