Back to the drawing board

[clarky]

In a jam situation, I'll make up a bank of 5 presets with scenes, then dial in by hand anything wild that comes up.
In a covers gig I play, I use one or two presets per song, with 2-3 scenes each max.

The best way to solve this problem is to just do what you can in the time allotted, play some gigs, and make adjustments. Soon, you'll find out what works best. Then you can make things tidy and efficient.

Also, are you using pedals with VOL INCR and VOL DECR? With this power tool, you can adjust levels during a single band rehearsal and get it all right. I use a Boss FS6. (Though I do also sometimes use an EV-1 on CC#11 with a range of 111-127 for fine tuning at a gig.)

When is someone going to make a volume pedal with a "detent" midway? That would be very cool.

if I were in a covers band I'd do pretty much this..
in a single preset, a soloing tone, a riffing / dirty rhythm tone and a clean tone
then make a couple of copies of the preset with different combinations of fx to address some specific moments in some songs that the main preset can't handle
so that'd be around 5 presets for the whole gig and I reckon I'd play the bulk of the set on a single preset..

just because song X has an AC30, song Y a JCM800 and song Z a MkIIC don't actually mean that it'd be wise to do the same..
what I'd go for are generic tones that'll pretty much fit everything..
this means that the levels and apparent 'size' of your tone throughout the gig will be consistent
so you'll fit into the mix exactly the same way in every song
the audience will most likely not notice the details [amp, cab choices etc] of your tone at all..
they're certainly more likely to notice if you're kicking' ass or not

so my take tone wise is..
keep it simple, consistent, sound great, feel great.. then you're more likely to play great..

EDIT: something just occurred to me with respect to the Axe and it's massive tonal capabilities..
maybe you should ask yourself the question when dialling in tones for a covers set..
does 'just because you can' mean that you should??

 

[Tommy Tequila]

When is someone going to make a volume pedal with a "detent" midway? That would be very cool.

Sounds like an EV-2 should be in the works!

TT

 

[Pinkycramps]

i used a preset for every song, with scenes for each section...all built off the same couple of templates though.

This.

Been there done that with most listed approaches, but what I have settled on now is a a philosophy of a combination approach. I play in 2 cover bands now, that are a little different from one another. I have developed a "my tone" approach, in which I use 3 amps to create 4 basic tones (clean, edgy, crunch and searing lead.) My go to amps happen to be a Fender (I think it's a vibrato verb, might be a dual, can't remember right now), a Plexi, and the HBE. They just work for me and work together well.

I use global amps, (which is THE KEY for me!) and a few basic templates, so I cured my volume issues with that approach. Where I create signature sounds is with the effects. By using different delays, reverbs, modulations, wah, pitch shifts or whatever, I can really get authentic tones for a given song. It's more than accurate enough for live cover band work. This is not the approach I would really take for recording, but for live it is what works for me. It is more or less a 3 channel amp with a rack of effects and midi switching setup (which is a more flexible and complex version of amp and pedal board I guess) - only all in one box.

 

[paranoid]

I am using about 3 root tone presets and make a preset with every song name, then place one of the three presets in and set the scenes up so scene 1 is intro, then clean, crunch, lead(I found some times I forget to switch to the proper scene when switching presets other wise). There are so many preset slots in the xl it is nice to use them for the song list. then set up song sets in the mfc.

 

[Patzag]

I do a lot of gigs - about 150-200 a year. I use mostly 5-6 presets.
An AC30 thing, a Dumble thing, A Plexi thing, another Plexi-ish, an Acoustic preset and a Twin Reverb preset.
I can do any gig with a single preset that has AMP XY switching and an overdrive.
I have a Volume pedal insert after the cab in all my presets, so I can control my volume without affecting reverb or delay tails.
I also have the VOL INCR and VOL DECR assigned to 2 IAs so I can level my presets as needed. After a couple of years, these are the least used IAs on my MFC! But after a tweak session, I sometimes need to bring order and then these 2 are VERY useful.

 

[REDD]

I use 5 basic presets. Then have presets that are song specific if there's some specific effect, delay time etc.

That's the same thing I do with a total of 19 presets but sticking mainly to the basic 5. Classic crunch, harder crunch, heavy, lead and clean.

 

[Roadrunner]

For those out there playing covers and using an Axe, how many presets are you running?

the last month has become a headache due to frustration in trying to balance output volume levels across 30+ presets. What was I thinking?
Thanks all!

I’m playing in a cover band, we have something like 25-30 songs in our list and I’m running approximately 20-25 presets where few of them are using 2-4 scenes.

I do try my best to nail the right sound for the song but also there are songs which share same and only preset, for example all our AC/DC songs are on the same preset, no scenes, no nothing (thank you Angus).


For leveling the presets there is a very easy and “on the fly” solution – I balance all @ 0db when I program, trying to have more or less the same level and than during rehearsals I’m leveling them using Volume Increase and Volume Decrease dedicated switches over my EXT4MFC – look @ my sig pic).

1 or 2 (top) rehearsals and I’m ready for the gig with all presets leveled and boosts where I need etc.


Same solution as M@ offered below:

are you using pedals with VOL INCR and VOL DECR? With this power tool, you can adjust levels during a single band rehearsal and get it all right. I use a Boss FS6. (Though I do also sometimes use an EV-1 on CC#11 with a range of 111-127 for fine tuning at a gig.)

 

[Eric T Amble]

I actually do the "preset per song" thing for my cover band's 40-or-so songs. I have a lot of fun reading up on exactly which amps/cabs/fx were used for which song... and then giving up and using the HBE
My presets typically have 4 scenes: rhythm, clean, lead, and "FX", which can vary greatly from song to song... but the scenes' jobs are consistent for all presets, e.g., my "lead" scene is "3", no matter the song.
For leveling, I like to put a synth block with a square-wave LFO at the front of the chain, making pink noise (leveled like a direct guitar strumming a chord), like "pshht, pssht, pssht...". Then I look at the internal VU meter and tweak. That's the ballpark... and then, between sets, I briefly review the previous set's songs for any perceived leveling problems/complaints from people. Type a little note into my phone so I don't forget, and edit at leisure. After maybe half a dozen gigs, you end up in pretty good shape!

 

[Smittefar]

I am still waiting for the Ax8, but I expect to build 2 or 3 basic presets that will cover all my needs. Then I will tweak these presets to each song and save a preset per song - What I expect to change between presets is delay time, volume, which blocks are on x/y'd in each scene and so on.
Not much changing in the overall tone between each song, but just everything laid out and ready for use without too much tap dancing.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

I can't imagine using several presets per song, because of the audio gap.
For best results - stay within one preset and even avoid using X/Y on amp blocks.
But if you want different presets to be on the same level, use the "VU" page in the Utility.

 

[Smittefar]

I would also try to stay within one preset per song (right now I cannot think of a song (I play) where that should not work). Is there an audio drop-out when switching x/y settings within an amp block?

Another way to really test your preset level is to record your playing into a DAW and then monitor the level with LUFS meter - That gives you a loudness value rather than a peak value, which is better for comparisons than the peak value. Could be something like this http://www.kvraudio.com/product/mloudnessanalyzer-by-meldaproduction

 

[barhrecords]

I can't imagine using several presets per song, because of the audio gap.
For best results - stay within one preset and even avoid using X/Y on amp blocks.
But if you want different presets to be on the same level, use the "VU" page in the Utility.

I switch presets during songs. Sometimes takes me 3 button presses on my foot controller (TC VoiceLive 3) depending on where I am and what preset I'm going to.

It's easy to talk yourself into thinking any delay at all is unacceptable, but its actually not bad in practice.

I time my switching with the music and have to think ahead to switch at the end of a phrase to get ready for the solo etc.

With my analog rig, I might have to channel switch my amp, switch guitar pickups, and activate / de-activate more than one pedal on my board.

Makes the preset switch lag of the Fractal seem trivial to me.

 

[PRSfreak4]

In a jam situation, I'll make up a bank of 5 presets with scenes, then dial in by hand anything wild that comes up.
In a covers gig I play, I use one or two presets per song, with 2-3 scenes each max.

This, with the exception of having all 5 scenes leveraged for my mixes of REV, DLY, MLTDLY blocks. Ever since "scenes" became a reality, this made the most sense to me. Instead of the individual stompbox approach which I still use "on the fly" if needed, the scenes help you enable other effects that may not be represented on the MFC (DLY1 vs. DLY2 for example) without additional programming. For my last gig the majority of the presets had to be different enough to feel out the songs with 16 total for a 24 song set. It's hard to get a Fleetwood, then a ZZ Top, then a Journey, then a Counting Crows sound, ya know?? Thanks M@-man & OP, good discussion.

 

[sbanville]

Most gigs I just use a single preset with scenes and stomp box effects. I typically use my guitar volume to clean up tones and rely solely on the amp's power section for my gain. I do from time to time change up patches depending if I'm looking for a classic or modern style tone, typically either the BE100 or 5150 III now with Cab pack 20.

 

[javier]

As a base I use one preset per amp model or family, one scene per amp channel; two amps blocks with two different channels in each block; example: AMP1 X = Usa clean 1; Y= Usa Lead; AMP2: X= Usa rhythm; Y = usa lead+; scene 1: amp1 X (amp2 bypass); scene 2: amp1 Y (amp 2 bypass) adjusted to lead volume, eq, etc (simply switching X/Y won't work between clean and lead); scene 3: AMP2 X= usa rhythm (AMP1 bypass); scene 4 AMP1 X, AMP2 Y (clean + lead); ...
Y have presets for mesa, brit, carol ann models,... I like selecting the amp; no presets per song, unless ocasionally (for weird effects: pitch, synth, etc).

 

[javier]

with AX8 I will loose this flexibility (only two channels per preset, not four); thats why I'll add to the wish list a request for X/Y/Z only for AMP Block or a multichannel AMP Block.

 

[JT2]

My cover band had 125 to 150 rotating songs plus adding the 'current' hits. I always tried to nail the guitar tone. After many years I found I could alter a few of my 'excellent' patches with effects and EQ to almost get anything. With a patch for Fender, Marshall, AC30 and a HBE I can get real close to whatever. Of course there are always EVH, SRV etc. that are distinctive so I keep them available. Beside, people are drinking and dancing and 'in the zone'. It's the energy that makes it work. Get the girls dancing and all else falls into place. At each break write down changes you need to make to vol., etc. You'll forget tomorrow.

 

[Spatch63]

I'm a preset junkie, so I tend to download presets to experiment with. This addiction turns ugly quick when you try to select sounds on the fly so to speak. Definitely create a preset template that works best fit for what you like & build from it. Like some have already stated, most people in clubs or at parties seldom notice the tone or facsimile there of. The biggest challenge is staying organized with soooo so much to play with in a small package!

 

[TG3K]

I'm still learning, and every few months I change my entire strategy.

I'm currently in a cover band with 40+ songs in rotation. For about 75% of them, I'm using a relatively clean preset with an array of stomp box blocks. My "clean" preset has five scenes, but by using X/Y options I have four different amps and four different cabs. (The fifth scene is two amps and cabs together.) I use this "clean" preset as a template and make a separate copy of it for each song I use it on. Then, on a song by song basis, I'll tweak the preset as needed, and set up Scene 1 with the amp model I typically use for that song. (Still, there are nights when I'll decide to use a different amp in the middle of a song. I like having that option at my feet.) I also have a similarly-configured "dirty" preset that I use as a template for a few songs. The remaining 25% of the repertoire is made up of "specialty" songs where I have one or more specific presets for that song. I use MFC-Edit to create set lists that allow me to step through the songs in the correct order.

I'm not using Global amps at this point, so getting everything leveled out is a pain. I'm about due for another total revamp of my presets - FW Q1.03 might just be a good time - so next time around I'm planning to leverage the concept of global stuff to my advantage.