AxeFxlll through Allen & Heath Qu16

R

Rocky Gallo

Inspired
Iam running my Fractal axefx3 directly into a channel on the Qu16 via my left output on the Fractal unit and running my right output of the fx to my stage monitor which is an atomic wedge FRFR… it sounds great coming from my atomic wedge speaker, big fat, warm sound… the sound I am getting from the main speakers which are powered JBL pro800 ser… tops (15 and horn) and 118 subs… it sounds thin… my channel on the Qu16 is eq’d flat. Should I set the input on the channel up and route it differently or just rely on the Eq setting for that channel… it just sounds so thin coming to front of house? Anyone else have this problem or any suggestions…
 
Just to be sure, switch the outputs on the back of the Axe and see if the problem stays or follows. If it follows, it’s either the axe, or the cable. If it stays, it’s the channel on the mixer or the signal path there after.
 
I have done that for years i just use both output 1 (stereo to my JBL monitor and stereo to AH)and EQ on my AH SQ5
 
What are JBL Pro800? Do you mean PRX800 Series?

If so, it's likely the 15" box....kills the mid range (where the guitar lives).
Best thing to do would be, plug your Axe directly into the top speaker. If it sounds thin....then you have found the problem.

Another thing that would be fun for you to try....use your Atomic CLR as your PA top.
Again, if you have the PRX series from JBL, your Atomic will sound better.
PRX are decent, but not amazing....add in the fact that it's a 15" and a horn, and you sometimes get razor blade tone.
There is a thread somewhere in the archive where Jay Mitchell explained that there is a frequency gap between how high a 15" speaker can reach, and how low the horn will reach (in the majority of prosumer speakers)....thus the mid range gap.
 
Yes they are PRX800's.... I will plug direct into them and listen... after you have explained how the 15 and horn sucks out the midrange tones... thats exactly what I'm hearing from them... I feel that is the reason it sounds thin. I am using my Atomic wedge for my vocals as well as my guitar and it sounds great... ... Thank you for you help...
 
I own and gig that very board with ev tops and subs. a few things I do is go 1/4 out 1 of axe into 1/4 input on the board. I then set the axe to +4 and out put 1 wide open. I start the trim on the board at zero and slowly bring it up to -6. I find that the xlr off the axe is hot and had read that the qu is line level. That took some of the sharpness of the tone out. I then dialed up some proximity for the cabs in the ir block and that gave some thickness to it.

my out 2 goes to a Duncan 700 stereo out to two evh cabs with no ir. that Thumps pretty good and I can get close to it with that set up. I do use stereo to the board and compared to mono doesn’t really give any thinner sound.

one other thing, we are really loud and I find I will cut down into the mid 5000hz range in the ir block especially plexi type amps. That seemed to cut the shrill high and made it more mid forward.
 
Rocky Gallo said:
Yes they are PRX800's.... I will plug direct into them and listen... after you have explained how the 15 and horn sucks out the midrange tones... thats exactly what I'm hearing from them... I feel that is the reason it sounds thin. I am using my Atomic wedge for my vocals as well as my guitar and it sounds great... ... Thank you for you help...
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Those have an EQ button on the back of them, I believe. One setting is a scooped mid, and the other is flat, I believe.
Edit: Main/Monitor mode. If selected to Monitor, it usually applies a High-Pass Filter, or a heavy LF Shelf reduction removing a lot of low end. Could be that switch.
Lastly it could be the internal EQ on the speaker. Are those the models with Bluetooth EQ? Wonder if someone tapped into the EQ internally and adjusted the EQ.
 
Check to make sure the board is EQ’d on the mains to the space you are playing in. That will help make sure that what is coming from the PA is more true to what it should sound like, and will hopefully match your monitor closer.
 
Hi @Rocky Gallo

Is there any chance you could run your left and right channels to your stage monitor, and setup your presets with an out2 so you could send both l & r to the desk as well? Often I find some presets do sound thin when you listen to one channel only and listening to both channels fixes it right up.

Thanks
Pauly

Rocky Gallo said:
Iam running my Fractal axefx3 directly into a channel on the Qu16 via my left output on the Fractal unit and running my right output of the fx to my stage monitor which is an atomic wedge FRFR… it sounds great coming from my atomic wedge speaker, big fat, warm sound… the sound I am getting from the main speakers which are powered JBL pro800 ser… tops (15 and horn) and 118 subs… it sounds thin… my channel on the Qu16 is eq’d flat. Should I set the input on the channel up and route it differently or just rely on the Eq setting for that channel… it just sounds so thin coming to front of house? Anyone else have this problem or any suggestions…
Click to expand...
 
As a side note, I’ve read that 15” tops and subs may not be the most efficient combination. If it’s possible I believe 10” tops (or 12”) set to whatever eq preset rolls out 100hz and below would be better. Your probably getting a lot of frequency overlap causing some of the muddiness and loose bottom end depending on what gets sent to both speakers.
 
jamongrande said:
As a side note, I’ve read that 15” tops and subs may not be the most efficient combination. If it’s possible I believe 10” tops (or 12”) set to whatever eq preset rolls out 100hz and below would be better. Your probably getting a lot of frequency overlap causing some of the muddiness and loose bottom end depending on what gets sent to both speakers.
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Depends on the program. If you're just doing pre-recorded music (DJ/Background music/etc), then yes, 10" and sub is more efficient. If you're doing a (full) live band, no, you'd want a 12" or 15" and sub.

The difference between 10" and a 15" or a 12" and a 15" is not just the lowest achievable frequency range. It's also the recreation of the Low Mid as well, and the definition in the Low to Low Mid, especially as volume increases. The higher the volume, the more speaker compression, and a 15" will have less compression in Low Mid at a higher volume than a 10" or 12" will, of the same speaker line, typically.

If the crossover point is set at 100Hz between both of them, there will still be more definition to the top speakers in a Low to Low mid as the woofer size increases. It's not just about what a High Pass Filter does.
 
@Rocky Gallo , you mentioned that the QU16 channel was flat, what about the outboard EQ for the room? It's possible (and should be) that there is an overall EQ in the outboard stage of the mixer to handle the room tuning. If you're in a reverberant room, it's entirely possible that a lot of the low mid are scooped out to avoid boominess in the mix. Or it's possible that whoever set the outboard EQ (assuming there is one), did not set one appropriately. Just setting the channel EQ flat is only part of the equation. The outboard/master EQ is an overall EQ that will affect all the channels together, so it's entirely possible that there is an outboard EQ that is set in such a way that is not conducive to the tone you're used to, or the tone you desire.

Again, this could be set properly or improperly, and both have the possibility of producing an undesirable tone for your AxeFX. Typically once the full mix comes in, it fills together nicely, even when on a channel by channel basis, it's possible for things to sound thin. Once the room's acoustical response comes into the equation, if the overall EQ is set against the room properly, it should sound full.
 
Check there is no low cut set for the channel in your mixer.

Switch the 2 speakers around and keep everything else the same, does the problem stay the same or move ?

Also how does the placement of speakers compare ?
A speaker on the ground in a corner is going to sound different to a speaker on a poll in an open space.

Lastly, does the prx setup sound full with recorded music, what about isolated guitar (Leon Todd youtube for example)
 
Going mono, u want to check your cabs. If your Axe is set to stereo with 2 different cabs, could be it. I’ve a/b’ed left and right, the cabs by themselves don’t sound the same (made that way) but together is awesome. So if you are sending one different cab to the board and different one to your monitor there’s likely a difference.
Make sure they are panned in the axe, 12 noon.
 
SinglecutGuy said:
@Rocky Gallo , you mentioned that the QU16 channel was flat, what about the outboard EQ for the room? It's possible (and should be) that there is an overall EQ in the outboard stage of the mixer to handle the room tuning. If you're in a reverberant room, it's entirely possible that a lot of the low mid are scooped out to avoid boominess in the mix. Or it's possible that whoever set the outboard EQ (assuming there is one), did not set one appropriately. Just setting the channel EQ flat is only part of the equation. The outboard/master EQ is an overall EQ that will affect all the channels together, so it's entirely possible that there is an outboard EQ that is set in such a way that is not conducive to the tone you're used to, or the tone you desire.

Again, this could be set properly or improperly, and both have the possibility of producing an undesirable tone for your AxeFX. Typically once the full mix comes in, it fills together nicely, even when on a channel by channel basis, it's possible for things to sound thin. Once the room's acoustical response comes into the equation, if the overall EQ is set against the room properly, it should sound full.
Click to expand...
Yes check the master EQ on the board. It should be EQ’d for the room. If not that could be affecting the sound. Or if there are any other signal processors in the chain after the board.
 
Rocky Gallo said:
Yes they are PRX800's.... I will plug direct into them and listen... after you have explained how the 15 and horn sucks out the midrange tones... thats exactly what I'm hearing from them... I feel that is the reason it sounds thin. I am using my Atomic wedge for my vocals as well as my guitar and it sounds great... ... Thank you for you help...
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're getting the same advice from others, which is - it's likely the PA itself (whether it's a 'main output' eq, or a mid range gap in the speakers themselves).
Again, test the Axe through them directly, and if it is the speakers, then your solution is - channel eq on the A&H.
Just my opinion, but I would use channel eq to get your signal through the PRX to sound as close to your Atomic as possible. I would not use the global eq out on the Axe to correct the problem....because when you get to a new room/venue, you'll have to disable/change it. I like having the output from my Axe to be as close to studio ready as possible....then adjust on the board to accommodate flaws in the PA.
 
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