AxeFxII for Bass: Live use - slightly changing gears...

jimfist

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
My name is Jim, and I'm a live tone tweaker. There. I said it.

I need to have TONE KNOBS when I gig. Period. End of story. I'm not going to get into a long(er) technical post as to why this is the case, but let's just say that for the types of gigs I'm doing now, I need to have the ability to "globally" tweak my tone over the course of a gig as the night progresses. Many of you who are familiar with the sonics involved with relatively small clubs know what I'm talking about as a room starts out slow, and then progressively fills over the course of the night (humidity changes, bodies absorb sound, ambient noise level goes up, etc.).

Long story short - I've replaced my Crown solid state power amp with a Gallien-Kreuger 1001-RBII (got a very sweet deal from a local GC on an open box and saved about $140). The head has lots of power, is bi-amp ready (as are my 15" coaxial speakers), and putting the AxeFx in the effects loop gives me the best of all worlds. I've got it set up on a fairly clean setting, so when I change "flavors" and add a tube Amp Model, it still translates quite well. To boot, the GK tone stack is quite desirable on its own. Of specific key value are the Contour knob and the 4 tone knobs (Lo/Lo-mid/Hi-mid/High). A twist of the contour knob brings the overall tone from a honking classic "middy" tone to mid-scooped metal or pop/slap funk. (If FAS ever does get around to modeling bass heads, you'll see most popular models feature a contour/enhancer/mid-scoop/voicing knob or switch of some type, and/or a tunable mid-frequency band...not sure, then, how they would go about this with the existing Amp block architecture...and...I don't think they're too concerned LOL!)

Now, I had been hoping that there would have been a firmware update that would have: 1) allowed the Amp Block's tone knobs Bass/Mid/Treble and Presence to be accessible to modifier control, thus allowing them to be assigned to ABCD front panel knobs on a preset-by-preset basis - or - 2) that there would be an alternate type of Global EQ, such as a 4 band para or semi-para EQ, with level for each band assignable to the ABCD knobs. None of this has happened nor does it appear to be on the radar....and so be it. This is not a gripe or complaint. I love the AxeFx and it is as close to ideal a processor as I could ever have hoped for ('scuse me, while I wipe my chin...).

But I'm a practical guy and I gots ta have quick access to tone knobs for gigging. I'll have better impressions on how well this works (or not) after a couple of show. Right now, though, loving it!
 
I've had times where I've considered getting a Sansamp RPM and using it as a preamp. I have one open space left in my 4 space rack, so it would be perfect for that. I have a friend who just got a GK bass amp to play around the house. He got it at guitar center. It was a floor model, so they gave him a great deal on it. He compared it to some Fender Rumble and other amps while he was there and he said it was no contest.
 
(I know that these posts can be painfully long...apologies...there are only so many bassists and bass specific topics, so I figure, what the heck!)

Generally, speaking, GK makes pretty solid stuff and not huge $$$ either for most of their heads. Doesn't hurt that 2 of my favorite bassists (Flea and Justin Chancellor) both use GK. I had an old 800RB way back in the late 1980s that I remember liking, and I had the opportunity to play through one last friday night. It was very nice, and that's when I noticed the importance of the specific features I mentioned, especially the Contour switch. So I figured I'd take a look see...got a good deal.

I've just spent the last hour+ cranking through the AxeFxII and GK 1001-RBII combo and I have to say that this is a winner. I have to cover a lot of different styles on bass, and sometimes it just feels like it's easier to reach back and turn the knob to get what I need. It's a simple matter of the AxeFxII being able to produce the sounds I'm looking for, but not really able to allow me to OPERATE the thing in a manner to which I'm accustomed (like a traditional amp). If this were "neatly" available as a stand alone control surface designed to interface seamlessly with the AxeFx, then I'd happily use that instead. (Blasphemy, but I actually briefly considered looking at a Kemper, but then realized it wasn't the amp modeling I was after, but rather the tone KNOBS.) So it wasn't at all a sonic issue as much as a hardware interface issue. It's kind of a bonus that the two pieces are playing so well together and sound so good as a pairing. And the 1001RB is LOUD...I can only imagine how many cabinets the 2001RB could drive and the volume it produces.

One other side benefit of using the GK bass head is that for many shows there are other acts performing, and sometimes they are not well compensated (if at all) by the club. In order to make it less painful, I usually offer up the use of my rig so that other bassists can travel light, get on/off stage quickly, and save some much needed stage space usually. Not having a "traditional" bass amp/head tends to freak other players out and they aren't usually very adventurous. So having a trusty familiar bass head for them to plug into makes life a little easier for everyone to deal with.

I should also add that there are definitely situations where I don't need all of the access to the knobs. In a more controlled and disciplined situation with consistent stage level and monitoring (and tech staffing), this wouldn't be much of an issue, if at all. Most of my gigs are not this right now, and I find myself gigging more in some unusual situations, odd stage locations, varying PA systems, and with a rotating roster of players. Each variable makes "consistency" and comfort level a bit of a challenge.
 
If you have an MFC, couldn't you make a box with 4 potmeters into it, always assigned to what you like?

W/o MFC I guess you'd need a MIDI thingy...
 
I have my big bass rig in the living room with the power amp there, but since I'm not in a band and I don't play live, most of my playing is done right here in the computer room, and typically through headphones, though I have a nice set of super flat response 8" monitors on my desk with ribbon tweeters. I think my biggest reason for wanting the Sansamp though is very similar to you. I want knobs I can adjust tone with quickly, while still having access to all the great compressors and effects the Axe offers. Plus, I play guitar through the Axe as well, so I could just keep using the Axe as normal for guitar and use the Sansamp RPM as my pre when I play bass. This would be particularly useful on the big rig to dial it quickly and easily for the room. I have one in my cart on musician's friend right now since they're having a 15% off sale. I've been wanting one for a while. We'll see. Have to clear it with the wife first.
 
vAmp said:
If you have an MFC, couldn't you make a box with 4 potmeters into it, always assigned to what you like?

W/o MFC I guess you'd need a MIDI thingy...
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This would work .........But as the OP wrote, the amp block tone controls are currently not accessible to modifier control.

And also, these changes would not be global, but could remain through scene changes??
 
Moke said:
This would work .........But as the OP wrote, the amp block tone controls are currently not accessible to modifier control.

And also, these changes would not be global, but could remain through scene changes??
Click to expand...

correct.
 
Could one simply add a basic eq into the fx loop of the AxeFX, or between the AxeFX and your amp/head? Like a 5 band parametric?
 
jimfist said:
cool. I really like SansAmp stuff. I'd love to hear what you think of it.
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I have a whole bunch of gear I've been trying to sell, but I haven't had much luck shifting it. Would make it a lot easier to swing the RPM if I could sell at least one thing. This economy has been crap for trying to sell music gear, at least around here. I may just stick it on a credit card for now while I try to sell this stuff and pay it off when something sells. If (or when) I do get it, I'll totally report my experience with it.
 
rmbaylin said:
Could one simply add a basic eq into the fx loop of the AxeFX, or between the AxeFX and your amp/head? Like a 5 band parametric?
Click to expand...

in fact I had already tried this for a while and it worked ok at the expense of an added rack space and a few $$$. My current solution with the GK head simply replaces a 2 space power amp (no tone control) which I prefer as I'm trying to keep all of this in a 4 space rack. Current iterations of the AxeFx aren't likely to get me where I want to be: to have amp style tone knobs (programmable "soft knobs") on the front of the unit. So much focus is put on the AxeFx as a tube amp modeler. As other manufacturers have done, and logically so, the ability to tweak front panel drive/Bass/mid/treb/presence/MV knobs on the front panel seems like a natural fit. Again, this is just my hope/preference...maybe in a new product in the future...
 
Ok I ordered a Sansamp RPM. I've read nothing but stellar things about it and oddly enough, I found a video of a bass player using one into an Axe Ultra on YouTube, which I won't bother posting here because the sound on the video was crappy. I'm really looking forward to getting it and giving it a go.
 
As a cheaper alternative, you could go with the Sansamp Para Driver DI pedal as well. Here's a video of a guy demoing it.

Guitar - Tech 21

Bass - Tech 21 SansAmp PARA DRIVER DI: Bass - YouTube

Very impressive stuff! Musicians friend is selling this for $209. Could get it for a steal with their current 15% off sale too for anyone who's interested. The knobs on the rackmount RPM would be more convenient for live playing though.
 
RPM will be here on Tuesday, so sometime Tuesday night I'll report the results.
 
Ok the RPM is here and in my rack. I'm running the bass into the instrument input on the front and the output on the back into the left mono input on input 1 in the back of the Axe. I had a bass preset that was already a no amp/cab sim one. It simply had a compressor/GEQ combo for the tone, which is my preferred bass setup in the axe since I don't like the bass cabs and I'm not a huge fan of the SV amp. I filled in as many effects as I could configured for bass in the rest of the blocks without overloading the cpu. For the Sansamp settings, I'm only using the compressor and the enhancer.

The RPM has a totally different feel to it, as it's completely analog. There's a warmth and a punch using it that I didn't realize I was missing, and really brings out the character of your bass. It's also FAR easier to adjust tone quickly. Small adjustments make a huge difference. For live use especially, I would absolutely recommend it, as between it and the Axe, you get front panel convenience and any tone that you could possibly want can be achieved quickly. Dialing in for a room with this thing would be a snap.

Slap players would want to make use of an extra GEQ in the Axe probably because the RPM's top end works around 3k, so you'll want to use an extra GEQ to bring out more brightness for slap. I think this is why people suggest pairing the RPM with the RBI, because the RBI can get a lot more trebly and crisp, but by itself, the RBI doesn't have anywhere near as good of a tone as the RPM. So throwing a GEQ in the chain in the Axe will get you that extra brightness you need should you desire it.

It takes a bit to get used to the active EQ / sweepable mid thing, but once you get a feel for it, finding your tone is a simple matter.

So the long and the short of it is, I'm very happy with the purchase.

Just a tip...

The new Pedal 2 compressor that was added fairly recently gives great tone for bass if you're looking for a more modulated, grindy sound. It's also more present in a way than the studio, and it's default settings have a higher output. If you're used to using the studio compressor in the Axe, give the pedal 2 one a try to see if you might like it for different situations.
 
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DLM, nice review of the SansAmp. I was considering going this route but didn't want to add another rack space to my setup in order to do it, thus my choice to go with the GK 1001 RB head (on a great deal, btw). It was a simple swap out with my Crown power amp, functions essentially the same but with the added benefit of having tone knobs at my disposal.

Did a gig with the new setup last Friday and was very pleased with the way it performed. Having the "traditional amp" controls at my fingertips put me at ease, and though I didn't need to do many tweaks over the course of the night (none once settled in), the adjustments I made were critical and needed to be done quickly during the performance in the first set. So, I'm a happy camper now. Three more shows this week and I'll have a real good feel for this.

A couple of things worth noting:

- on the GK head, one of their trademark features is the COUNTOUR knob, and this is a very good tonal feature IMO. I'm going to do some experiments Tone Matching a few settings of this knob so that I can have them available to punch in via my MIDI foot pedal (this will mean even more control without knob twisting at gigs).

- I've set up a new preset utilizing SCENES that consists of: default Scene 1 Clean bass alone with mild compression (I agree with DLM that the Pedal 2 type is pretty cool - I set this up with a very low Sustain setting); Scene 2 adds a Drive block (Tube Drive) for some warmth/fatness; Scene 3 adds a second Drive block set to an aggressive distortion; Scene 4 bypasses the 2 Drive blocks and engages an Amp Block set to Brit 800. This has a low Drive level but with significant audible distortion, especially when I "dig in" with my playing. In the context of a full band mix it is right on the money for a lot of styles - classic hard rock/early metal/heavy blues, etc. On my 2 expression pedals, one is set to add chorus/flanger with the other set to add a little bit of volume for on the fly level adjustment.

- Like DLM, I've not been using Cabinet sims/IRs for bass much lately. Perhaps in a more controlled studio/recording environment applying IRs would be effective and desirable, but for general gigging using my FR rig, I just find that they tend to get in the way of things. I would add, though, that IMO this is not so much to do with the quality of the IRs, but the fact that my bass rig is FAR FROM flat response. I find that using some type of EQ, whether it be in an Amp or Drive block, is pretty much all I need to adequately tone shape my instrument. Bass is such a different animal compared to guitar when using FRFR systems. It is very easy to get a good and desirable bass tone without cabinet IRs going FR...unless you're going for an ultra-clean tone or acoustic guitar tone, the extremes of the frequency spectrum are just AWFUL for electrical guitar, thus the IR is a key component in getting a good tone. JMHO
 
^ What he said. :)

I have the RPM dialed in now and I love it. The presence, warmth and thump you get out of it is awesome. To be honest, I've used digital units for so long, I forgot what analog sounded like. Mostly I just play in headphones. I haven't tried it on my studio monitors or the big rig in the living room yet. The big rig is a 2000w power amp (1000 at 8ohm, which it's running at), four cabs (4x10 and 1x15 on each side) and two Pyle tweeter boxes. So it's full range but not flat response. At some point here soon I'll take it out and hook it up to that and see how it sounds. I replaced all the speakers in those cabs, so I have the frequency response charts for the speakers, which makes it easier to dial the EQ in to mostly compensate and flatten it out to some degree. I do that with the global EQ on the Axe.
 
One final note about the RPM. I was curious if I could use it as a preamp for guitar as well as bass. I knew it had settings for acoustic, but I wanted to try playing electric through it both clean and distorted. I had no problem at all dialing in great tone quickly with both. Adjustments were quick and simple and it sounds great with both my jazz preset and my 5153 Red preset. So it's great. I did have one problem with it though. I was using an unbalanced 1/4" cable into the rear input 1 of the Axe, and I was getting all kinds of ground noise. I went and got an XLR to TRS cable at Guitar Center today and switched to the XLR out on the RPM and it solved the issue completely.
 
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