Axe2 as a Swiss army knife: Room correction EQ

aziz

aziz

Power User
I went and bought myself new Genelecs. I decided to check out my room with a measurement mic to check out what frequencies are the worst in my room, it helps with positioning and adjusting the speakers. (They have several dip switches to adjust the bass and treble frequencies in various ways.) Well, I don't live in an acoustically treated studio room, so the room modes are just as horrendous as they look:
1534970_10202306256550695_1578387543_o.jpg

A graph like this makes it very easy to identify the problem areas. I made this a with a "Room EQ Wizard" -program, it is free and awesome! After measuring the graph, you can go ahead and play a sine wave by moving your mouse along the graph and re-confirm the huge peaks and valleys with your own ears.

What does this have to do with Axe2? Well, I did the measurements by connecting mic pre to the Axe. And wait, it gets better! After measuring the response, you can go ahead and get suggestions from the program, basically it tells you the exact EQ values for removing the worst problem peaks. I use the Axe as my soundcard anyway, so now, naturally, I just plug these into two PEQ-blocks in the Axe, and now I have a room EQ correction that I guess would be very similar to what a real DSP-series Genelec speaker with the accompanying measuring program would give. The difference is quite big, the offending mush boom from the 60 and 120hz is gone, resulting in better clarity in any music. Of course, a better way would be to move into a bigger house/room and add a few cubic yards of bass-absorbing material in the room... But this way I too can fit into the room instead of filling it with acoustic wool!
 
And if you want to get better results, you make a grit of different measuring points to find the average frequency problems. Because a position change from left to the right with only, just sayin', 5 cm changes the sound in the high mids / high frequency range dramatically.

What you did is something like the "poor-people-Version" of the ARC II-System from IK-Multimedia (please don't see that as an offense - you seem to be one of the few people that understand the importance of a room correction!!!)

But the Room-EQ-Wizard in Connection with the Axe is also a great feature to make average sounding FRFR-Monitors sounding way better! I measured the frequency range of my db technologies Flexsys FM12 Coax and created a correction setting by using
two PEQ-Blocks before the FX-Loop Output 2.... The monitor sounds WAY better than before!!! We showed this to the people at Axe-Fest Germany in 2013 as "Pimp my FRFR" and I think, that at least 15 people in the german forum have bought this monitor
and use the PEQ-Correction successfully!!!

Have fun, Man, you're on the right way!!!!
 
Yea, I'm not going to bother trying to correct anything higher than 200hz, I don't think that'll give any good results. Removing the bass-mud veil is enough of an improvement.
 
That's a question of budget. The way with ARC or Room EQ-Wizard is not to improve the sound "quality" of the room, it's just minimize the problems frequencies that untreated rooms generate.
These "room correction" algorythms do not work in the whole room, they just produce some kind of "sweet spot", where the phase and frequency issues get minimized.

I'm using ARCII (and was using the ARCI) and my mixes are WAY better, than they were before. My old rehearsal room was treated with a small budget, and it was not possible to get a good mix done there.
My actual rehearsal room is a 6 x 3 m concrete box in the basement of my house. Phase Issues, early reflections, etc. would need a massive budget and knowledge (again budget) to get this room "clean",
but with room correction it doesn't matter.
 
Sorry, I can't believe this. If there's a dip or peak at your listening position because of a mode or other room-related problems no EQ will help you with that.
You can optimize the positions of your speakers and your listening position, but not with EQ.
 
merlin17 said:
If there's a dip or peak at your listening position because of a mode or other room-related problems no EQ will help you with that.
Click to expand...

Yes it can. This is not a studio and it will never be, this is my bunker with guitars, Axe, guns, tools and workbench. Cutting 62hz and 124hz makes my life better, and that's it. Boosting valleys would be a recipe for a disaster, and even I'm not dumb enough to do that. The speakers have various bass cut dip switches built in, they are also EQ and help a lot. This is the same thing, just tailor made for my bunker.
 
Do whatever you want. ;-)
Though it looks like you could improve on that mode (62Hz and 124Hz are an octave from another) by repositioning your speakers a bit.
 
@merlin17: honest question: have you ever listened to a system that was treated with ARCII ? Just curious...
 
These arguments come up all the time.

The fact is you can learn to mix in bad rooms. But good rooms make it easier. It's really that simple.

Corrective EQ is always problematic because the listening position is so critical. Even minor changes in head position can change what "correction" is needed.

But whatever tools you can use to create better mixes = good! There are no rules. If room EQ makes your musical life better... then go for it!! It's really about what works for you and what you do.

It might be the corrective EQ results in an equally skewed amplitude response, but for whatever reason, that works better for you.

So in a sense both sides are correct. EQ doesn't fix the amplitude response AND EQ helps you make better mixes.
 
funkstation777 said:
@merlin17: honest question: have you ever listened to a system that was treated with ARCII ? Just curious...
Click to expand...

No. But I also don't have experience with snake oil.
BTW: The EQ controls on the speakers are for broad adjustments for specific placements within the room (wall, corners, meter bridge, personal preferences), not for dealing with room modes.

But if you think it helps you, do whatever it takes.
 
merlin17 said:
No. But I also don't have experience with snake oil.
BTW: The EQ controls on the speakers are for broad adjustments for specific placements within the room (wall, corners, meter bridge, personal preferences), not for dealing with room modes.

But if you think it helps you, do whatever it takes.
Click to expand...

That was exactly what I was thinking by reading your first post. There are several people in the german axefx.de-forum community, who also got very surprised about the functionality of the ARC-System. (BTW...I'm not a salesman from IK... ;-)
 
EQing your stereo bus can help to some extent but is certainly just a band-aid. I'd reckon you could have spent less on some treatment and decent speakers than the Genelecs and you might have had a better overall outcome :) (just my two cents)

acoustimac.com <---DIY and premade traps for great prices. I made a ton myself from that site.

Having said that, you can learn to utilize most less-than-ideal spaces by simply muscling your mixes into translating in other spaces with a lot of trial and error. Once you learn your room's weaknesses, you may overcome much of them. Not all. Treatment is king.
 
"Correcting" the sub-bass frequency room modes (<150Hz) is almost an herculean task and way too expensive for anyone that is not going to build up a professional studio (and yes, I know you can place bass traps and move your speakers out of the room corners... but where are YOU going to be after the room got like 50% smaller because of that?).

The only way to "cure" a mode is by having absorbing foam wherever the primary and secondary reflection come from. And the foam has to get thicker the lower the frequency is. And I don't see why I should support those absorber foam mafia prices.

So I totally agree with the TO here: fighting excessive bass with an EQ is not a bad idea at all.
 
I addition to absorbing material, various resonator designs targeted at specific frequencies would help.
 
funkstation777 said:
That was exactly what I was thinking by reading your first post. There are several people in the german axefx.de-forum community, who also got very surprised about the functionality of the ARC-System. (BTW...I'm not a salesman from IK... ;-)
Click to expand...

Andy, Peter owns a recording studio - I bet he's pretty much aware of room treatment and room mode issues ;)
 
That has nothing to do with his profession, I'm pretty sure, he knows, what he's doing. But I don't diss something, I haven't experienced yet. And additionally, I understand, why Merlin wants to believe, that something like the ARC (or KRK Ergo) is bullshit, because the increasing amount of "bedroom studios", that are now able to produce at professional levels by using tools like UAD's, ARCs, Axe-Fx's and digital Audioworkstations, have lead to extinction of many professional studios.

On one side, this is a shame. On the other hand, the budgets for music production decrease year by year and most of the people just can't afford the way to a "real" studio.

Room treatment vs. digital room correction devices is the same discussion like analog tape machine vs. modern digital Audio-Workstations.

If you got the budget, you can do it. That's a pretty good investment. But, IMHO, the lower the frequency range of your music exceeds, the more expensive it gets. That has also something to do with the style of music you produce.
A Stratocaster for example is way more easy to control in a mixing situation than a longscale 6-String Bass or a 7-String Guitar. Also volume is an issue. The higher it get's the more the room gets induced, and every physical room treatment
has it's limitations...even with a biiiig budget.

@Merlin17: I hope, you don't misunderstand my posting. I know, that you know what you're doing. Your mixes are decent and this is not an offense to your profession.
 
funkstation777 said:
Room treatment vs. digital room correction devices is the same discussion like analog tape machine vs. modern digital Audio-Workstations.
Click to expand...


No, dsp cannot replace good room like digital recording did to tape.

I'd think of this as a band aid in a shitty room, in a good studio it would be a fine tuning tool, like the most expensive Genecs - their engineer comes to your studio and adjusts things. My point here was: The Axe can do almost anything, whether it's evil or not.

As for the Genelecs vs cheaper: made in Finland, I refuse to even consider other options if i can support domestic industry with my little GAS.
 
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