Axe III via Studio Monitor v.s. Tube Combo at the Same Volume

My thoughts:

1) tube amp + guitar speaker Vs Axe + FRFR monitor is not a rigorous test, for so many reasons, some of them already explained by others

2) I tend to value the quality of the sounds as i would do in a recording session, where the cab is in another room and I’m hearing the mic’ed sound. I don’t really care of other factors, including the “feel” of the speaker moving air. That’s mostly impractical in real life (and on most modern stages)

3) latency is very annoying, but I’ve never experienced it with Axe 3, with my setup. On a stage, just standing a few feet away from the amp would introduce a more pronounced delay.
Thanks for chiming in, yeah, if you don't care about the nuances in the "feel", there is no issue here, e.g. Axe III records beautifully.

I did another session yesterday, turned the volume up a bit more to compare both setup, that improves the feel of the Axe III. Interesting.
 
Just a point to ponder but the stereo image of headphones vs monitors is different and both are different than mono image of the amp. Seems like comparisons of any of the 3 of them, to each other, wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison.
 
There's just a lot that can make it an apples and oranges thing. Cab sims vs hearing a real guitar speaker directly, volumes not being matched with a decibel meter at the same distance, placement of the tube combo vs studio monitors....

It's pretty much all going to be in the amplification setup rather than a deficiency of the Axe-Fx 3. Axe-Fx 3 also offers a massive amount of tools to tweak the sound and feel so you might want to start digging through the advanced options and see if something works better for you.

But sometimes the simplest way to go is to plug into a real amp and play!
 
People seem to think I am questioning Axe III's capability, well that's NOT what I am doing.... I have tried all major modelers, Helix, Kemper etc (but not QC yet), and Fractal clearly does most things better than the rest... Not questioning that. On top of that, when I record stuff, Fractal really shines as well, no doubt about that.

Folks also mention apple to apple comparison, well, clearly that's not what I am doing here either, and that's NOT the intention. We are not discussing about matching tones. We are talking about the nuances in the feel, however I compare them, there is something in the feel common/intrinsic to the tube combos and digital set up respectively. And somehow I always gravitates towards to the feel of tube amps.

I don't need them to "feel" the same, but I wonder why I always prefer the feel from a nice tube amps....

In fact, if I am questioning anything, I am questioning something bigger here, e.g. the whole current modeling paradigm, where the actual/physical SS power amplification happens outside of the control of the modelers, which is generally not tuned to be like traditional tube amps, and whose performance I suspect plays a big role here....

I fear that may be the elephant in the room, everyone is silent about because there is not good answer/solution....
 
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I don't need them to "feel" the same, but I wonder why I always prefer the feel from a nice tube amps....
You're not alone. I have Tone Matched (Axe III) and Profiled (Kemper) my Marshall JMP-1 / 9200 rig, and they're super close.....but I prefer my Marshall rig.
I mean they're crazy close in sound...but the feel is just a little different.
My Marshall has a sparkle/sizzle/bounce to it, that is not perfect from my Axe III (even when using a real cab).

But am I ever going to lug my Marshall rig to a gig again? Not in this lifetime.
Axe III is too close for it to matter.

I believe you're saying something similar. I have no question that Axe is the right solution for me. But that doesn't mean I don't prefer my tube amp when they're side by side.
 
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it's an exercise in futility, honestly. It's so apples and oranges it's not even worth comparing. They are different...the Axe isn't meant to sound like your tube combo sitting right next to you. The only way to compare it to an amp that way is to run it into the exact power amp and cab as your tube amp and just use the Axe as a preamp, even then they won't be exactly the same for reasons that Cliff has stated numerous times.
 
it's an exercise in futility, honestly. It's so apples and oranges it's not even worth comparing. They are different...the Axe isn't meant to sound like your tube combo sitting right next to you. The only way to compare it to an amp that way is to run it into the exact power amp and cab as your tube amp and just use the Axe as a preamp, even then they won't be exactly the same for reasons that Cliff has stated numerous times.
No, I don’t think the comparison is futile, it just means there remains room for improvement or innovation.

There is a reason folks still prefer the feel of real tube amps despite the tones is indistinguishable between molders or tube amps in recordings. I dare to dream to understand, pinpoint, model and quantify that reason, maybe one day we’d figure it out.

Again, this is not just about the difference between the two set up, its about why most of us prefer the tube amps feel.

If we figure this out, one day, the digital may feel vastly better for most of us than tube amps.
 
If we figure this out, one day, the digital may feel vastly better for most of us than tube amps.
I'm happy to let Cliff carry on with his work since he is well on the way to achieving this goal. I very much doubt that 'we' can offer anything he doesn't already know.

In the meantime, things are so close that for me, my Mesa amp hardly gets its covers off anymore.
 
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No, I don’t think the comparison is futile, it just means there remains room for improvement or innovation.

There is a reason folks still prefer the feel of real tube amps despite the tones is indistinguishable between molders or tube amps in recordings. I dare to dream to understand, pinpoint, model and quantify that reason, maybe one day we’d figure it out.

Again, this is not just about the difference between the two set up, its about why most of us prefer the tube amps feel.

If we figure this out, one day, the digital may feel vastly better for most of us than tube amps.
but it is, because the Axe isn't trying to be a tube amp. It's trying to be mic'd rig. It will never sound or feel like your amp in the room because it isn't meant to.
 
To me 95 d IS super loud, actually pretty dangerous as a practice habit, maybe I am just getting old :)

At my bedroom practice / jam volumes, around 70 db, none of my actual amps sounded or felt better than my Axe, actually I sold the YJM and traded the JCM800 because at those volumes I enjoyed much more the Axe.

I also happen to play most of the time with some Reverb or Delay engaged and with those effects on, much of the picking differences you mention, that maybe are there, get diluted, let alone playing in a mix.

I sometimes think about getting an small tube amp for fun (still keep my modded JVM410C) but I remember when I had the Laney IRT Studio, that could do less than 1 W, it still was very loud and not sounding differentially better than my sims.
 
This conversation has been attempted many times in the past, with ugly results. Bravo for giving it another shot. It's always been my opinion that they help the Fractal team move forward. Most forum members see it as an opportunity to dogpile, though. I am happy with the the AXE FX III, it works for me and I know it's role. For me, it's not taking the place of my tube amps. It's my go to recording, late night jam and experiment rig. I don't expect it to out perform the amps it's emulating.
 
I am happy with the the AXE FX III, it works for me and I know it's role. For me, it's not taking the place of my tube amps. It's my go to recording, late night jam and experiment rig. I don't expect it to out perform the amps it's emulating.
I can't afford the amps it's emulating, not 10% of them, in some cases not even one.
 
I don't need them to "feel" the same, but I wonder why I always prefer the feel from a nice tube amps....
A couple of things here and meant with respect of course. This is subjective and a personal journey you have encountered. I also think your inquiry is super interesting. For me... it wasn't my experience. I had a beautiful half stack Marshall and I prefer the stereo image and the silence of the Axe.

I did not 'trust' the Axe when I first got it. I had double racks of equipment and there was no way it was going to replace my gear. One piece by one the gear wound up on Reverb or eBay down to a JMP-1 and then I discovered a preset that cloned the sound I was getting. Not only cloned it but did so without buzzing, had built in reverb and was in stereo so it was bye, bye JMP.
 
This conversation has been attempted many times in the past, with ugly results. Bravo for giving it another shot. It's always been my opinion that they help the Fractal team move forward. Most forum members see it as an opportunity to dogpile, though. I am happy with the the AXE FX III, it works for me and I know it's role. For me, it's not taking the place of my tube amps. It's my go to recording, late night jam and experiment rig. I don't expect it to out perform the amps it's emulating.

I'm with you on this. I can't even begin to count the times I've seen someone come in and talk about an "issue" with the product, only to be ganged up on by those that feel Cliff and his creations need defending. His astounding resume is all the defense he needs. Then The Man drops a new firmware where he addressed the issue, with all the ganger-upper's dropping massive praise about the new feature. It's maddening to sit back and watch happen countless times. The need to feel included supersedes most people's treatment of others.

There is a way to bring attention to an issue tactfully, which even if you don't agree with OP, I believe he has done so.

There's also the consideration that this forum is a marketing tool with the heaps of praise seeping from here. There is certainly not a shortage of it. Lol

Necessity is the mother of invention.

If Cliff sees no "necessary" needs to be addressed from his massive user base, do you think innovation and development would continue down the same blistering path we have come to know and love?

Just food for thought.
 
I'm with you on this. I can't even begin to count the times I've seen someone come in and talk about an "issue" with the product, only to be ganged up on by those that feel Cliff and his creations need defending. His astounding resume is all the defense he needs. Then The Man drops a new firmware where he addressed the issue, with all the ganger-upper's dropping massive praise about the new feature. It's maddening to sit back and watch happen countless times. The need to feel included supersedes most people's treatment of others.

There is a way to bring attention to an issue tactfully, which even if you don't agree with OP, I believe he has done so.

There's also the consideration that this forum is a marketing tool with the heaps of praise seeping from here. There is certainly not a shortage of it. Lol

Necessity is the mother of invention.

If Cliff sees no "necessary" needs to be addressed from his massive user base, do you think innovation and development would continue down the same blistering path we have come to know and love?

Just food for thought.
Maybe I missed some posts: can you give me one example of users “gang-up” ?
All I have seen is a bunch of people trying to explain that tube amp and modelers + FRFR are entirely different experiences; I didn’t see anyone overreacting or being dismissive.
But maybe I didn’t read all the posts.
 
So I love the AFXIII for what it is, and I'm playing guitar much more with it than I was before.

I don't bother with IRs and just run to real cabs, and it sounds great etc. I do still have some tube amps, and I tend to mostly use the AFX models of those amps (the reason I have them is because they're my favorites, so makes some sense their I like their Fractal counterparts most as well).

Anyway, if I switch from the AFX immediately to the corresponding tube amp with the same cabinet, I do prefer something about the tube amp. It's just warmer or bigger or something. I dunno exactly what it is.

But that doesn't make the Fractal bad. It still sounds great, and can do many more things than a tube amp. Plus my amps are getting kinda old and becoming somewhat valuable, so I don't like to fire them up for just a few minutes here and there, but have no worries doing that with the Fractal.

There all just different tools.
 
I can't afford the amps it's emulating, not 10% of them, in some cases not even one.
Get a used Deluxe Reverb or something, they are inexpensive. It'll give you some perspective. Better yet, just play the Axe FX III and get on with the music. The tone you get from any Axe FX unit is better than you will ever need.
 
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