Axe-II - 4CM

Guitar-Tiz

Experienced
Any of you Axe-II guys using 4CM yet?

If so...

How do you like it?

If you had a G1, has it improved? and if so how?

Also, and I'm mostly just curious here, but can you get a passable "brand x" sound when using a "brand Y" tube amp by bypassing the real preamp in your tube amp, and going through a modeled preamp (poweramps off, and such?) If you can, it could really open up some live tonal options. Just a thought.
 
My plan, at least initially, is to use the AFXII in 4CM with my Mesa Mark IIC+. I love my amp, but got an AFXII in hopes of replacing my pedal board and also to have some preamp alternatives.

I'm not far enough into it to give a full report, and I'm new to Fractal so this is still a learning experience. Having said that, I can comment on the idea of using "Brand X" preamp sim with "Brand Y" real tube power amp (Mesa in my case). In a nutshell, I think the results are similar to what you should expect if you hooked up the real preamp for Brand X to the power amp from Brand Y. If the Brand Y power amp is similar to the Brand X one, it'll sound a lot like the real Brand X amp. For example, running the Recto sims into the Mark power amp worked well, I'm guessing because they're both Mesa 6L6 based designs. If they're more mismatched, like a JCM800 into the Mark power amp, you need to play with the settings more, for example in some cases leaving the power amp sim on got me closer to what I was after (I think this helps in cases where the Brand X power amp contributes significantly to the tone or differs a lot from the Brand Y power amp).

Of course, I had to try the Mark IIC+ preamp sim into the real power amp... it sounded great. With "mismatched" brands, even though the result might not be exactly like Brand X, you can still produce some very nice tone, regardless of what real amp it sounds like.
 
Cool! I figured, from a purely theoretical standpoint, that it would work just fine, so it's not really surprising, but thanks for the info!

Like you though, if I did this, it would be more of a way of virtually expanding my live back line, than it would to actually "100%" replicate amps. I love having "my" sound down, but every so it's nice just to be able to throw something different in there every now and then, ya know.

And for some reason my sick sense of curiosity can't wait to try an Eggy sim through my Egnater! And when I get my Engl, I really want to try an Energyball through it. I guess it's just human nature to want to compare stuff. Even if it's not all that important. :lol

I'd still love to hear from someone who has upgraded from Gen1, and uses the 4CM!
 
Out of curiosity...

What would you expect to be different than Gen 1? The only difference is that I *believe* you had to compensate for a DB boost in Gen 1. Which has since been eliminated to my understanding.

Bypass more 'transparent'?

Ron
 
Out of curiosity...

What would you expect to be different than Gen 1? The only difference is that I *believe* you had to compensate for a DB boost in Gen 1. Which has since been eliminated to my understanding.

Bypass more 'transparent'?

Ron

Well...

Are there noticeable improvements in the FX? Do these VVT & G2 things improve anything in JUST the preamps? How silent is the new and improved I/O over the old, and more specifically are the old ground loop issues solved, and hows the noise floor? How much easier does the "unity gain" feature make setup? I could go on, really.

There's actually a few references in the manual to how much better the Gen2 4CM is over the Gen1 4CM, and I just want to see how well the new things work in the real world. I don't doubt Cliff, but everyones experience is different, so I'd just like to see what the Forum members are experiencing with these improvements.
 
Out of curiosity...

What would you expect to be different than Gen 1? The only difference is that I *believe* you had to compensate for a DB boost in Gen 1. Which has since been eliminated to my understanding.

Bypass more 'transparent'?

Ron

The 2 has been designed with Humbuster ground sensing tech as well as the boost. The main problem/ issue with the 4CM was ground loop potential. The 2 has addressed this issue in the design of the hardware.
 
The 2 has been designed with Humbuster ground sensing tech as well as the boost. The main problem/ issue with the 4CM was ground loop potential. The 2 has addressed this issue in the design of the hardware.

Exactly! And I'd love to hear about peoples experiences about this, and the other things.
 
Out of curiosity...

What would you expect to be different than Gen 1? The only difference is that I *believe* you had to compensate for a DB boost in Gen 1. Which has since been eliminated to my understanding.

Bypass more 'transparent'?

Ron

Really? The II was developed with the 4CM in mind. Unity gain + humbuster + lower noise floor should equal a much improved result with 4CM.
 
I thought i read that the g2 had selectable impedance on the ins and outputs. This could be the key to matching it up with your amp. My g1 never sounded right in 4cm. Sucks more tone than an unbuffered switcher with pedals and all the added cabling that it required.
 
I thought i read that the g2 had selectable impedance on the ins and outputs. This could be the key to matching it up with your amp. My g1 never sounded right in 4cm. Sucks more tone than an unbuffered switcher with pedals and all the added cabling that it required.

Impedance selection is only on input 1.

Also, impedance selection is really not about matching to an amp. Just about every amp out there' has an input is 1 Mohm or more. The impedance selection is for improving the accuracy of effects emulation for like fuzzes and univibe. Those type of effects have low impedances that put a load a guitar pickup.
 
Those type of effects have low impedances that put a load a guitar pickup.

You know for some reason I always thought this was the other way around! Now that I think about it though, I guess this makes more sense. lol

And this is why I ask these kinds of questions! You never know what kind of bits of information you'll learn!
 
I am also very very interested in hearing how others get on with the 4CM. My Ultra is great - until I plug in my Boogie Mark V using the 4CM. Then hum/hiss/buzz/yuck abounds (especially with high-gain).
 
I solved the humming with an EbTech Hum X plug.
The hissing I have not solved.
Even with the Axe II's adjustable pads on the outputs, the hiss is still there .....
 
Hmmm, I run my Ultra 4CM with no tone suck or noise problems?

I can't imagine what your problem was unless it was your amp's FX Loop or cables etc?

I thought i read that the g2 had selectable impedance on the ins and outputs. This could be the key to matching it up with your amp. My g1 never sounded right in 4cm. Sucks more tone than an unbuffered switcher with pedals and all the added cabling that it required.
 
I solved the humming with an EbTech Hum X plug.
The hissing I have not solved.
Even with the Axe II's adjustable pads on the outputs, the hiss is still there .....

The Hum X only removes the ground potential for one device so that ground potential is defined by one circuit node and removes 60 Hz hum. It doesn't address all noise issues, just the most common one. Hiss is a sort of white or pink noise and is usually the noise floor. Something in your setup is set to a very high level. Check your output levels for all devices. An extreme volume setting on one device going into a device with a lower level to compensate for the loudness is usually the culprit of noise floor audibility. Whats your setup like?
 
The Hum X only removes the ground potential for one device so that ground potential is defined by one circuit node and removes 60 Hz hum. It doesn't address all noise issues, just the most common one. Hiss is a sort of white or pink noise and is usually the noise floor. Something in your setup is set to a very high level. Check your output levels for all devices. An extreme volume setting on one device going into a device with a lower level to compensate for the loudness is usually the culprit of noise floor audibility. Whats your setup like?

Based on utility meters in the Axe everthing is great. The only thing set high is the outout 2 pad, +15dB (trying to lower the noise floor and get rid of the hiss on my medium and high gain channels). Amp is a Bogner XTC 20th Anniv with its loop in serial mode and its loop return knob set to about 10:00. Volue of amp is the same with its loop in or out.
 
So is the hiss present when you switch the loop out? Does it go away if you disconnect the Axe?

One way to find the source is to tweak each level or volume control starting from the amp volume or FX return and working your way back toward the guitar. If the hiss changes with the volume tweak, the problem is behind that point in the signal path. If the hiss remains constant but source volume changes with the tweak, the problem is in front of that point in the signal path. This should help to narrow it down.
 
So is the hiss present when you switch the loop out? Does it go away if you disconnect the Axe?

One way to find the source is to tweak each level or volume control starting from the amp volume or FX return and working your way back toward the guitar. If the hiss changes with the volume tweak, the problem is behind that point in the signal path. If the hiss remains constant but source volume changes with the tweak, the problem is in front of that point in the signal path. This should help to narrow it down.

Hiss is only there when the Axe is in the amp's loop, the loop is on, and I am using a gainy channel. From what I have seen and read, this is part of using 4CM for many amps ......
 
Hiss is only there when the Axe is in the amp's loop, the loop is on, and I am using a gainy channel. From what I have seen and read, this is part of using 4CM for many amps ......

Have you tried placing a gate/expander just prior to the output block? If that doesn't fix it then it sounds like an impedance loading issue on the Amp's loop I/O. Something is killing your signal to noise ratio. Did you try the testing method in my previous post to locate the issue?
 
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