Axe FXIII with Mesa Boogie 50/50 and 2x12 stereo Mesa Boogie Cab

la noise said:
Thanks. I was looking for feedback from those who used the 50/50. Like it? Or
have you moved on?
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I haven't tried the 50/50 actually haha, I've always had the 2:90. I still have the 2:90 power amp paired with my Triaxis rig. I've been using an old ADA MicroTube200 for practice/home and I recently purchased a Fryette Power Station :sweatsmile:

The 2:90 sounds amazing though, it colors your tone with that Mesa power section sound, but I'm used to that particular sound so it worked in my favor. Having presets with dual amps to have one amp run with no power amp, and the other with a power amp sim was tedious though for live scenarios.

I hope they make a future firmware where you can edit the power amp section in a block to avoid using two heads for this type of preset/ application.
 
Hi there,
I play a 50/50 as power amp. In my opinion an idea also could be to neutralize it by using an inverted IR (Impulse response) in best case or an EQ block. After that one can use the amp modelling.
Does anyone tried that and has some hints if that may work?
 
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Jupiter said:
OK, now I am lost.

He is using a Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo power amp which in theory just amplifies whatever is being fed. According to the AxeIII manual page 25, that should qualify as a "neutral" power amp, am I wrong?
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Yes
 
trancegodz said:
I used to use a Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp with a Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo power amp and a stereo 2x12 Mesa Boogie cabinet. I pulled it out tonight and tried it and it still sounded good. I then decided to try the Axe FXIII with the 50/50 power amp and stereo 2x12 Mesa cab for the first time tonight. I hooked it up as the manual suggested and turned off the cabinet modeling and power amp modeling. I expected it to sound great, but it sounded terrible. Really thin and totally unusable with distorted sounds. No matter which amp I tried or how I dialed it in. I was able to get a pretty good clean Marshall sound.

I know some of you guys are using the Axe FXIII with a power amp and real speakers and are happy with the sound. How do you get it to sound good? I am guessing that you have to use a solid state power amp like the Matrix so you can keep the power amp modelin
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trancegodz said:
I used to use a Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp with a Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo power amp and a stereo 2x12 Mesa Boogie cabinet. I pulled it out tonight and tried it and it still sounded good. I then decided to try the Axe FXIII with the 50/50 power amp and stereo 2x12 Mesa cab for the first time tonight. I hooked it up as the manual suggested and turned off the cabinet modeling and power amp modeling. I expected it to sound great, but it sounded terrible. Really thin and totally unusable with distorted sounds. No matter which amp I tried or how I dialed it in. I was able to get a pretty good clean Marshall sound.

I know some of you guys are using the Axe FXIII with a power amp and real speakers and are happy with the sound. How do you get it to sound good? I am guessing that you have to use a solid state power amp like the Matrix so you can keep the power amp modeling on.
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I’ve used the axe in several different scenarios with varying results. First time I owned one was a 2 and I used it with a Randal RT250. The tones I got out of that set up were the best imho. The other ways I’ve used it are with a matrix power amp (solid state) through both frfr and traditional cab. I never got the same results with that setup as I did with a tube power amp. The power amp emulation on the axe should most often be turned on when playing through “most” power sections. The only time this is not true is when you have a power amp that is coloring the tone adversely. The RT 250 is a similar power section Randal put in their RM series heads. It’s made to be very neutral and work well with different preamp setups. It worked very well with many different amps in the axe but most often I left the power emulation on (not always).

I think the misconception I had when getting an axe was that I would be able to get pleasing results with any amp model in the axe with one power amp and cab. NOT TRUE. In a recording setup it gets very close but when you bring it into the room with a traditional power amp and cab things get complicated. Most Marshals don’t sound that great with the speaker cabs Vox amps sound good through and vice versa. This is why the frfr setup seems to be a good option for some folks because it replicates better. However I found that I like the traditional cab in a room better. I want my pant leg to quiver when i slam the strings.

also I found that when going from the 2 to the 3 my tone changed dramatically. I started turning down the highs more and more. The louder I played the more the highs needed to be rolled off. Things were sounding pretty harsh for a while until I learned to tame the highs. I suspect that the 3 has higher end components than the 2 which translates the highs more efficiently. Then again I started using the class D power amp instead of the Randall. I’m coming to believe that good tone is proportional to weight. For traditional setups the Class D sounds ok (light weight) tubes sound better (heavy). IMO

At the end of the day getting a great tone can be more on the complicated side. I think the best thing I’ve learned out of all the gear searching I’ve done is, when you find something you like just stick with it. Also there is no silver bullet.
 
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Wow, I wouldn't expect that from that combination at all.

I just picked up an old Mesa 2x12 with Black Shadows, I ran my AxeFX into the return of a solid state Peavey XXL head and into the cab and I was in heaven! I couldn't believe the balls coming out of that thing! All I did was turn off the cab block in one of my normal presets, I did a little tweaking to the amp block but I was in the ballpark as soon as I turned everything on.
 
I have yet to try my Mesa 50/50 running to 2 cabs. Pretty happy with running into the
FX Return of a tube amp and then out to cabs right now. So. Many. Variables.
 
RevDrucifer said:
All I did was turn off the cab block in one of my normal presets, I did a little tweaking to the amp block but I was in the ballpark
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Same here with Matrix + 2 Mesa 112s (1 with Black Shadow, 1 wi V30). Since Cygnus, just turn off cab modelling on Mesa presets and route to those cabs - sounds great.
 
Aloha 50/50 Users.
I about blew my head off today while turning the power amp modeling off on some of the Marshall Plexi presets. The User Manual recommends turning off the amp modeling in the global settings. I was doing this in the Amp Block to A/B the tone and was brutally punished McFly style by two 4x12s in a small room.
 
I should add that I am an avid SLO-100 Lead factory preset user and found minor differences when turning the power amp modeling off. I learned in this forum the Mesa line has "borrowed" from the SLO circuit; therefore, my power amp may be very similar to the preset.

Turning the cab block off with the 50/50 and two 4x12s severely boosted the high end and had me turning down all the tone controls in the amp block. I found myself chasing the tone from my Yamaha HS8 monitors and ended up using the 50/50 at a lower volume with all modeling on. If it matters, my 4x12s consist of a Soldano with V30s and a Marshall Basket weave with GBs. I'll spend some more time this week dialing in presets with both the cab block and power amp modeling off.
 
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la noise said:
Cool feedback. :)

In every setting I have tried with tube amps I like both power amp modeling and cab modeling on.
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I used to run Cab sim ON even when I played with trad' cabs and also for live. I was sure it sounded amazing! I played like that for years.
I did try Cab sim OFF from time to time but it sounded weird and fizzy with my Matrix NL212 cabs.
After few years, I switched it OFF one day and....I was shocked how good it suddenly sound, compared to ON which now sounded so bad.
All of sudden, heaving Cab sim OFF with trad' cabinet sounded so live, so rich vs. ON - it sounded so muffled and gray, like someone has throw a blanket on the cabinet.
.
 
It's ironic that my Power Amp/CAB posts are chasing the tone of the AXE III through Yamaha HS8s and not an amp in the room.

I've had my AXE now for a year and a half with HS8s that use my 4x12s as monitor stands. It does sound phenomenal with everything on: Power Amp and CAB modeling, HS8s, 50/50, and two 4x12s at a friendly volume.

If I were still gigging, I would look into the Matrix line or the Friedman ASCs for on stage only. Front of house would get all modeling on from the III's XLRs.
 
What I wanted to say with my post above:

You can neutralize your real amp cab combination (eg mesa 50/50 and Marshall cabs) by using an inverse IR block of that in your Axe block chain.

With that kind of setup, a Axe amp block or cab block can be used in combination with a real tube amp and real non FRFR cabs.

Has anybody tested this out?
 
Ulli2019 said:
What I wanted to say with my post above:

You can neutralize your real amp cab combination (eg mesa 50/50 and Marshall cabs) by using an inverse IR block of that in your Axe block chain.

With that kind of setup, a Axe amp block or cab block can be used in combination with a real tube amp and real non FRFR cabs.

Has anybody tested this out?
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I am too new to post links, but check out this thread:
forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/anti-cab-block.168883/#post-2029137

I was curious as to what an inverted IR block is. Cliff chimes in twice in the anti cab block thread.
 
I run my axe fx II through a Mesa 20/20 tube amp and recto 2x12. I do not use a cab (or bypass the cab sim in the axe grid, but I always leave the power amp modeling on. On some presets, I sometimes lower the amp modeling level, but it definitely sounds much better with it on.
 
trancegodz said:
I did try that and it sounded a little better, but not right. I tried it with amp and cab modeling off like it says to do in the manual; with amp modeling on and cab modeling off; and with amp modeling off and cab modeling on; and with amp modeling and cab modeling back on, to see how they affected the sound.

If I want to play through real cabs I think I probably need to use a solid state power amp like the Matrix so I can keep the power amp modeling on in the Axe FXIII.

I may eventually try it again with a solid state power amp and real speaker cab, but for now I've given up on using the Mesa 50/50 and 2x12 Mesa cab with the Axe FXIII, and went back to playing it through two powered PA speakers.
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That's too bad. Sounded like a great option to me. As I am waiting for FM9, and I have two closed back Mesa Rectifier 1x12 cabs and was also considering grabbing a 50/50.....
 
unix-guy said:
Which amp models did you try this way?

My understanding is that most Mesa amps get the majority of their character from the preamp, so most likely the 50/50 isn't too colored.

Using that with no power amp modeling and an amp that relies a lot on the power amp for it's character will likely not sound good.
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It is worth pointing out Mesa was doing mods on the 50/50 to voice it for the TriAxis called the Deep Mod. The Deep Mod, I believe, became stock on the 50/50 around 1993 or 1994. You can see the filter choke though the side vent on a 50/50 if it is installed.

"When the Fifty/Fifty was first introduced, it was designated as the companion poweramp for our Studio Preamp. Now, with the advent of the TriAxis Programmable Preamplifier, we are offering a single mod which greatly improves the compatibility between the TriAxis and the Fifty/Fifty by adding warmth and fullness plus a little additional power.
Although the procedure is simple and requires less than one hour, you must REFER THIS SERVICE TO A QUALIFIED TECHNICIAN."
 
RevDrucifer said:
Wow, I wouldn't expect that from that combination at all.

I just picked up an old Mesa 2x12 with Black Shadows, I ran my AxeFX into the return of a solid state Peavey XXL head and into the cab and I was in heaven! I couldn't believe the balls coming out of that thing! All I did was turn off the cab block in one of my normal presets, I did a little tweaking to the amp block but I was in the ballpark as soon as I turned everything on.
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I feel like the Black Shadows are pretty understated for modelers. They’re pretty sterile, but that can be a good thing when you have so many tone shaping options. With that said, I ripped mine out of my Road King and put the Vintage 30 in the open half, and an Alnico Cream in the closed half, and I’ve never been happier with a stereo cab.
 
Jambi said:
I feel like the Black Shadows are pretty understated for modelers. They’re pretty sterile, but that can be a good thing when you have so many tone shaping options. With that said, I ripped mine out of my Road King and put the Vintage 30 in the open half, and an Alnico Cream in the closed half, and I’ve never been happier with a stereo cab.
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Is that the older vertical 2 x 12 semi-open Mesa cab?
 
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