Axe-Fx Tone Imprinting. Guitar Profiler Tone-Match Cloner (Guitar Vault, Season III) ~ SIM1 XT-1

Piing

Piing

Axe-Master
Back in 2013 @Singtall had the great idea of creating a Guitar Vault to share pickups tonematching.

Now there is a small box from SIM1 named XT-1 that can profile guitars. According to the XT-1 user manual, the profiling procedure is similar to the Axe-FX Tone Match. I don't know if they use exactly the same technology, but the results from the Axe-FX are very good.

First you have to apply the "Learning Procedure" to your guitar (source guitar) by playing an ascending chromatic scale of 36 notes from E (6th open string). 6 notes per string. 2 seconds per note.


XT-1 Learning Procedure.png


The XT-1 will then model the different profiles around your source guitar. It also offers the possibility to profile your guitars and share them with the user's community.

I have found that this method provides better results than playing random chords and scales. I would like to propose that we create a vault with our guitars, following this methodology as a standard:
  1. Create a DAW project with the metronome set at 60 bmp and tempo 2/4
  2. Record a guitar track for each pickup using the Axe-FX III USB Instr Input (dry signal)
  3. Use the above procedure: 36 notes chromatic scale starting at 6th open string.
  4. Record with the metronome. One measure (2 seconds) per note
  5. Export the individual DAW tracks to 48kHz WAV files
  6. Name the files as [GuitarName - PickupPosition - PickupType.wav]
One advantage of having the guitar profiles as DAW tracks is that you do not have to play your guitar for recording your source matching every time that you profile a new guitar. You only have to record it one time and play the track from the DAW.

At the TMA, use the profiled WAVs as Reference, and your source guitar as Local

I have started with some of my guitars. Vault available here: https://mega.nz/file/lnJ2hbzA#NpNb36Ryy81qUz9SlOOZh55kxMyS5wJqI4ABLm3CnRQ
Guitar Vault 2020_08_02.png

Tone Matching Tips:
  • I get good results with smoothing between 80% and 85%
  • I have to increase TMA level around +8dB to match the level with the source
  • Doing A/B comparisons between the guitars (using the looper for the matched guitar) I find that I have to insert a PEQ after the TMA. e.g.: LO Shelving +4dB@400HZ, Hi Block -3dB@3kHz (depending on each individual case)
TM configpng.png

Some notes from Cliff on Tone Matching guitars: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/acoustic-simulator-block.139916/post-1659797
I get better results playing exactly the same at the two guitars. I find the SIM1 XT-1 methodology very convenient for that purpose.
 
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Very cool idea! I hope to try capturing some in the near future.

As I haven’t tried this yet, I’m wondering if a fresh set of strings, and indicating what type string (nickel, bronze,...) in the naming convention could/would be of any value? Just thinking how different my guitars sound after a string change. Is there enough difference to concern ourselves with this level, or is this just going down another un-ending rabbit hole? @Piing

Lee
 
is9582 said:
Very cool idea! I hope to try capturing some in the near future.

As I haven’t tried this yet, I’m wondering if a fresh set of strings, and indicating what type string (nickel, bronze,...) in the naming convention could/would be of any value? Just thinking how different my guitars sound after a string change. Is there enough difference to concern ourselves with this level, or is this just going down another un-ending rabbit hole? @Piing

Lee
Click to expand...

That is an interesting question. I am going to repeat the process slightly increasing the bridge height, because there was some fret buzzing at the lower string, and using fresh NYXL strings. I will compare the results.
 
NightWalker said:
very cool idea,but how to use those wav files?
Click to expand...

Insert the TMA block at the begininng of your FX chain, after the input block. Also insert a In USB block (as in the picture above)

The TMA block has two switches: Start Reference and Start Local

Start Reference is used for capturing the tonematched guitar by playing the wav file from the DAW (use the Axe-FX "In U Block L" as Output device)
Start Local is used for capturing your guitar (source guitar) either by directly playing the chromatic scale as described above or, more conveniently, from a DAW recording of your guitar.

Once finished capturing, press the Match button and adjust the Smoothing. Also adjust the Averaging Time, as singtail has suggested

When you save the preset, the tonematch will be saved with it. You can save the TMA block to use at other presets or export it as IR

Keep in mind that the preset or the exported IR will only bring good results with the guitar that you have used as Local for tonemaching. If you want to use it with other guitar or if you want to share it, the TM process has to be repeated with the new source guitar

Have a look to the Axe-FX Tone Matching Mini Manual and the TMA section of the user manual for more details. There are some tutorials at YouTube from Leon and Cooper Carter
 
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I love the Tone Match feature and have always espoused it whenever the occasion arises. In fact, I used to be a strong advocate for pickup matching, but after extensive trials, I've come to the conclusion that the effectiveness of tone matching pickups is extremely limited. It works as intended as long as you play the same notes/chords that you played during the matching process. However, deviating from those notes/chords has a big impact on the accuracy of the match.
 
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Piing said:
playing an ascending chromatic scale of 32 notes from E (6th open string). 6 notes per string. 2 seconds per note.
Click to expand...
Singtall said:
find that I almost always have to set it about 20-22 instead of 5 default.
Click to expand...

36 notes x 2 = 72 seconds. I don't know if the TMA window is exponentially weighted or a flat average but ~72 secs might be more appropriate. It might be also be better to loop the track twice as well?
 
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Was also wondering how the TMA window works when the sampled program is unique and the time is longer than the averaging window. For this 64 second profiling idea with no repeated notes, what would be the suggested averaging window I wonder?
 
this is why i always just strum the same 4 chords to tonematch. I've never had the issues many others have.
 
If you check out my guitar vault files you will hear that I always strum E, G, D, A. strum the full chord with all strings ringing out.
 
Smittefar said:
Would you tell us which four chords that is :D
Click to expand...
Singtall said:
If you check out my guitar vault files you will hear that I always strum E, G, D, A. strum the full chord with all strings ringing out.
Click to expand...

I imagine the chords should cover as many unique notes as possible (tho don't know how much that matters).

Four augmented chords played chromatically (e.g. G+ Ab+ A+ Bb+) cover all notes. Could do this on various parts of the fretboard.

1596501630970.png

A little OT but some other fun chords (played in multiple positions to cover all notes) visualized with using https://www.oolimo.com/guitarchords/analyze:

1596501811625.png 1596501694819.png 1596501967336.png
 
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Singtall said:
Behold! The guitar vault.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvd0wcpl8vw0xrm/Guitar vault.zip?dl=0
Click to expand...

Thank you! I did post a link to that Vault at the OP.

Some of these recordings are random chords and notes at different tempos, strums and note duration. There is even one playing "chugga-chugga".

I am getting good results with that chromatic scale. That is the standard used at the Sim-One XT-1.

One advantage of having a strict standard, besides consistency on the matching, is that you do not have to play your source guitar every time that you match a new tone, and you do not have to listen and learn the third party recording in order to play the same thing. You can have your source guitar recorded at your DAW and play it from there.

Playing a scale it is also easier to execute all the notes at the same volume. If in a chord you strum some strings louder than others, but at your source guitar they are not, these frequencies may be accentuated at the tone matching.
 
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@Piing, would you mind posting a recording of an example of a match between two different guitar-pickup combinations like a P90 (or HB) bridge matched to a strat-type bridge or vice-versa?

[Using your method, I'll try to record my ESP LTD EC-1000 with JB and '59 soon.]
 
Here is a quick test. Excuse me for the sloppy performance :sweatsmile:

Track-1: Harmonic Design Z90 neck on Schecter C-1 Hellraiser Special (The Z90 sound is thick, as a P90)
Track-2: Seymour Duncan Antiquity Texas Hot neck on Shecter Nick Johnston CustomShop USA Strat (The Strat sound is thin, as expected from a Strat)
Track-3: Strat reamped through the ToneMatch (The Strat sound is thick, as a P90)



The two guitars used here:
Schecter NJ and C1.jpg
Some differences between the tracks are due to the inconsistent performance, but the result is great :D

I attach the preset.
Scene 2 (TMA and PEQ disabled) was used for tracks 1 and 2.
Scene 3 (TMA and PEQ enabled) was used for track 3
 

Attachments

  • TM NJneck - Z90neck 5AM.syx
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