Axe-Fx overriding tone characteristics?

What's funny about these kinds of discussions on the forum, is that everything could have been copy/pasted from a thread in 2016, and it would be the same thing. Guy says that the experience with digital is different than the experience with analogue, and the digital loyalists come along to explain how the guy's experience is wrong. Repeat ad infinitum through every firmware update of every Fractal product :)

Putting any signal through a DAC diminishes it. You may get a sample rate that makes it so you can't hear the difference but it is there. In the real world the Axe is good enough but don't think it is the same, at can't be. It is just a different way of doing things. Embrace the difference instead of pretending it is an exact reproduction of old technology in a new shaped box. Axe has parameters that tube amps could never have and endless versatility. Now put that in a small box and play it at any volume, configure it any way you like and control it all with one small foot controller. BUT pick one amp one sound no FX and one guitar with a cable and the amp is better.
 
What's funny about these kinds of discussions on the forum, is that everything could have been copy/pasted from a thread in 2016, and it would be the same thing. Guy says that the experience with digital is different than the experience with analogue, and the digital loyalists come along to explain how the guy's experience is wrong. Repeat ad infinitum through every firmware update of every Fractal product :)
Actually, that topic rarely comes up in firmware update threads. And when it does, there will be those who disagree. Just like in real life. :)
 
Actually, that topic rarely comes up in firmware update threads. And when it does, there will be those who disagree. Just like in real life. :)
Of course it comes up in firmware threads, lol. "Wow it sounds just like the real thing now" - just phrased in different ways. Look, I love digital guitar rigs, but the hype is always the same and naysayers get shouted down. It's only natural on the manufacturers forum of course, but it's still pretty funny.
 
Of course it comes up in firmware threads, lol. "Wow it sounds just like the real thing now" - just phrased in different ways. Look, I love digital guitar rigs, but the hype is always the same and naysayers get shouted down. It's only natural on the manufacturers forum of course, but it's still pretty funny.

The "It sounds like the real thing" at the firmware discussions is not saying that it sounds less "digital" than the previous firmware version. It means that it captures more nuances of a particular guitar amplifier tonality than the previous firmware version. That is not a digital Vs Analog discussion. The AD/DA converters of the Axe-FX do not change with the firmware version.
 
Yes still an issue. Plug directly in to a single channel tube amp and there is quite a lot more guitar character coming through. Yes different guitars sound different but if you get say; two Les Pauls one awesome and the other good the axe will drastically reduce the difference.
No.
 
....and the digital loyalists come along to explain how the guy's experience is wrong.
I think this was not the case in this particular discussion. I said that I do not have a clue if guitar differences are smaller through the Axe Fx. The point was that, in the case there are differences, I don't think they are related to digital-analog conversion.

Personal experience can never be wrong, it is by definition a subjective perception. However, in order to pass that experience onto others, objective information has to be extracted. When experience is against (solid) scientific knowledge, then there must be another explanation, either be it intermodulation products or psychoacoustics.

I always wonder why there aren't any more blind tests published on these issues. One plausible explanation is that people with the necessary resources and the ultimate interest to conduct them (i.e. amp/instrument industry) could be profitting from the "magic aura" of vintage amps that a failing blind test could kill.
 
I always wonder why there aren't any more blind tests published on these issues. One plausible explanation is that people with the necessary resources and the ultimate interest to conduct them (i.e. amp/instrument industry) could be profitting from the "magic aura" of vintage amps that a failing blind test could kill.

Would be fun to see a proper scientific study on it.
 
I think this was not the case in this particular discussion. I said that I do not have a clue if guitar differences are smaller through the Axe Fx. The point was that, in the case there are differences, I don't think they are related to digital-analog conversion.

Personal experience can never be wrong, it is by definition a subjective perception. However, in order to pass that experience onto others, objective information has to be extracted. When experience is against (solid) scientific knowledge, then there must be another explanation, either be it intermodulation products or psychoacoustics.

I always wonder why there aren't any more blind tests published on these issues. One plausible explanation is that people with the necessary resources and the ultimate interest to conduct them (i.e. amp/instrument industry) could be profitting from the "magic aura" of vintage amps that a failing blind test could kill.
It's night and day in terms of feel and still apparent in the room.
 
Would be fun to see a proper scientific study on it.
How do you quantify the feel differences ? I've blind tested the two Les Pauls example with quite a few people and nobody had to think about the answer. The digital rigs diminished the differences between the guitars dramatically .
 
Our friend Nyquist spelled it out. If your sample rate is at least two times the highest frequency in the analog signal, you can recreate the waveform exactly.
Any sample rate does not capture 100% of the signal . It may get the salient points but the final result is not identical.
 
How do you quantify the feel differences ? I've blind tested the two Les Pauls example with quite a few people and nobody had to think about the answer. The digital rigs diminished the differences between the guitars dramatically .

Just putting guitar players in a room with the real amps and with the digital rigs I suppose, have them play and see how many can spot the difference.

Edit: maybe with the Axe 3 as just a preamp, running through the same power amp and cab as the real amp? I don't know, it's not really anything I lose sleep over. Digital is awesome, analogue is awesome, I just love everything. haha
 
Just putting guitar players in a room with the real amps and with the digital rigs I suppose, have them play and see how many can spot the difference.
I think just giving that choice may fool some people but the one I outlined telling the difference between two instruments proves to me that some important elements are still not getting through the process. It is most apparent if you plug directly in to a high end one channel tube amp with a low part count. This seems to really pull out the fine detail and sounds indefinably but obviously bigger .
 
I think just giving that choice may fool some people but the one I outlined telling the difference between two instruments proves to me that some important elements are still not getting through the process. It is most apparent if you plug directly in to a high end one channel tube amp with a low part count. This seems to really pull out the fine detail and sounds indefinably but obviously bigger .

Yeah sure, I agree that plugging into one of the high end tube amps I've owned or tried, hitting my best G chord and letting it ring out... it feels better than doing the same thing on the Axe. Buuuuuut I'm listening to the Axe through either studio monitors, a PA, or my Atomic CLR... it's a miced up sound. Put the amp in another room, mic it and listen through the monitors, I do not believe I can tell a difference. So what are we really talking about?
 
Yeah sure, I agree that plugging into one of the high end tube amps I've owned or tried, hitting my best G chord and letting it ring out... it feels better than doing the same thing on the Axe. Buuuuuut I'm listening to the Axe through either studio monitors, a PA, or my Atomic CLR... it's a miced up sound. Put the amp in another room, mic it and listen through the monitors, I do not believe I can tell a difference. So what are we really talking about?
I agree. But the thread is does Axe diminish the differences between guitars and the answer is "yes it does." Had the question been; " is the axe a pro quality digital alternative to traditional amps and pedals?" and the answer would have been "yes."
 
Any sample rate does not capture 100% of the signal . It may get the salient points but the final result is not identical.
This point is still completelly false. The sampling theorem shows that the reconstructed signal in the loudspeaker is 100% identical to the original not only in the sampled points, but for every t

That's the beauty of sampling, yet people still pictures incorrectly the stair shaped signal in their heads.
 
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