Axe-Fx mixes louder than DAW

prometh

Power User
I have 1 amp feeding 2 cabs with no subsequent blocks. I recorded each cab independently and mixed.

Cab 1 (1x6 OVAL) track produced a peak of -14.1dB
Cab 2 (RedWirez mix) track produced a peak of -6.1dB

Cab 1+2 tracks mixed on the Axe-Fx II produced a peak of -3.5dB

Cab 1+2 tracks mixed in my DAW (Logic) produced a peak of -5.2dB

Why would the Axe-Fx II be louder?
 
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Which cabs were you using? Some cabs have more bass and that may be the reason.


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Original post updated.

What difference would it make when the exact same signal is coming out of the cab blocks?
 
Dude, are you having a "curious thursday"? 8)

What and how did you record independently? How do you "mix"? Pan?

Pan law?
 
Today is audio day :)

Recorded independently by muting the alternate cab, and sending through USB to my DAW.

"Mixed" on the Axe-Fx by just having both cabs un-muted.
"Mixed" in my DAW by playing back both independent cab tracks.

I'm unfamiliar with the laws of Pan. :p
 
-3 dB compensated

I guess I should be using 0 dB. Would make more sense to me, anyway..

When you pan a channel up center you are sending the same signal to both speakers, resulting in +3dB SPL. A -3dB pan law makes much sense :)
 
Ah, okay, so it's set up correctly at -3 dB, then.

What else could be causing Logic mix quieter than the Axe-Fx?
 
Perhaps there's an assumption that 0 dB was obtained from the same reference point.
Since dB (decibel) is a ratio scale, to have both devices have the same apparent volume for 0 dB assumes same reference point - which may not be the case.

  • What does 0 dB mean? This level occurs when the measured intensity is equal to the reference level. i.e., it is the sound level corresponding to 0.02 mPa. In this case we have
    sound level = 20 log (p[SUB]measured[/SUB]/p[SUB]reference[/SUB]) = 20 log 1 = 0 dB​
Remember that decibels measure a ratio. 0 dB occurs when you take the log of a ratio of 1 (log 1 = 0). So 0 dB does not mean no sound, it means a sound level where the sound pressure is equal to that of the reference level. This is a small pressure, but not zero. It is also possible to have negative sound levels: - 20 dB would mean a sound with pressure 10 times smaller than the reference pressure, ie 2 μPa.
 
I dunno, but all that really confused me, heh. I was able to follow a little, but it's too much for my type of brain; whatever type that is... I think "retarded" is the term.

I just hook my Axe-Fx II up to my laptop with a USB cable and open Logic 9. I didn't even know what "Pan law" was until 15min ago. :S
 
What it means is - that the 0 dB reference point on the Axe might differ from your sound card or Logic. That also means that 0 dB in Logic MAY NOT EQUAL 0 dB on the Axe.
That could account for the differences in levels.
YMMV.
 
What it means is - that the 0 dB reference point on the Axe might differ from your sound card or Logic. That also means that 0 dB in Logic MAY NOT EQUAL 0 dB on the Axe.
That could account for the differences in levels.
YMMV.

It's digital, they all use the same reference - dBFS.
 
Original post updated.

What difference would it make when the exact same signal is coming out of the cab blocks?

Well, you are using two very different cabs. So the signal is not the same coming out. The freq response is drastically different. I would try using the Axe IR converter app to show a visual representation of the freq response. It might offer some explanation.


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I put the meter on the output (mix bus?). I muted all other tracks when I got the dB levels of each cab's recording.

I also tried all 3 pan laws to see if I could achieve the same volume as the Axe-Fx, but didn't find the results I'd hoped for
 
How are you recording the separate cab tracks in the DAW? 2 different performances on guitar? If so it's normal that summing those will show lower levels than one take through both cabs.

Here's a way to avoid reamping and eliminate the possibility of pan law affecting the reading:

Set both cabs' balances to the same side in the Axe-FX. Choose that channel as the input of a mono track and record something. The DAW track should remain centered.

Now set one cab's balance to the opposite side. Create two new mono tracks, inputs set to opposite channels, then record a single take to both tracks simultaneously. The DAW tracks should remain centered.

At this point you should find the levels are much closer. All the DAW tracks are mono and centered so the pan law (if any) is attenuating them all by the same amount. (If the Axe used a pan law for balance controls this method would still work, because the cab balances were always fully L or R.) To be more exact you could reamp one performance for all 3 tracks. Looper before cabs could be used instead of any DAW-based reamping.
 
Or pan everything hard right and left in your DAW so that your are metering in mono with no interaction with Pan.
 
Ohh okay, now I think I get it. I will try this in a couple of weeks; my Axe-Fx II is currently getting repaired (my mistake).
 
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