Axe-Fx III with Synergy preamp modules and MIDI

peteri said:
Couldn't agree more, the perform screen addresses the tactile nature as well
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I love my Axe-FX III and wouldn't part with it. Sounds great, feels great. Sometimes its fun to use other stuff and the reasons aren't always 100% logical and thankfully, don't have to be.

For me, the perform screen helps but it doesn't really duplicate the experience. I really appreciate that it is there because its better to have it than to not have it.
 
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Thank you for all your input and very helpful advice. I feel that I owe you guys a 'closure' so here's my rig. The Synergy stuff took almost 3 months to ship (I have to order from Europe because of the voltage). Yes, turning knobs is fun. Midi setup was a breeze. My main task right now is to try to match the tone from the Synergy preamps with the ones in Axe Fx as I am using both in the same presets.
 
muudrock said:
I would recommend plugging in to the SYN 2 first.
1) Connect your guitar to the INPUT of the SYN-2.
2) Connect cable from "TO AMP IN" on the rear of the SYN-2 to the INPUT of your AXE III.
3) Connect cable from "FROM AMP FX SEND" to the OUT of the output your going to use for you loop ( Out 2,3 or 4)
4)Connect cable from "TO AMP FX RETURN" to the IN of the loop your going to use for your loop (IN 2,3 or 4)
5)Insert the appropriate INPUT AND OUTPUT (2,3 or 4) blocks in your signal chain where you want them the, IE. in 2 before AMP block, OUT 2 after AMP block. Set up the Tube Pre model for power amp sim by turning the Sag control to 0.

You can use midi out of the AXE to control the Syn 2 channel changes and AMP block channels to control the Axe amp model per scene.
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Hi,

Tried this setup. However, wouldn't the Drive and Compressor blocks be after SYN-2 preamp if connected this way rather the before?
 
Running the Synergy preamp without a tube poweramp works but leaves a little something to be desired.

You can run the synergy into a fractal amp model- perhaps bending a "tube pre" or other amp model to your will.

Since many power amps are quite "colored", here's another idea: Shoot a poweramp EQ IR.

1. I shot an IR from the FX return to the slave out of my Randall amp. This worked pretty well.
2. I shot a tonematch IR in the Fractal attempting to capture the EQ difference between the Friedman BE model with the power amp bypassed (sag off) vs. enabled. This is pretty similar to the other way but you can do it without having an amp. This also worked pretty well.

Its not as good as a dedicated poweramp model, but I think it is a hair closer. Maybe one of the drive or compressor options could be added in series to get just a little closer still.
 
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Guys I run the Synergy stuff into the Axe-FXIII into an IR and then FRFR to a pair of Atomic CLR wedges. I put the Synergy Sag control at about noon or so and I’ve never once felt the need to do any power amp simulation in the III at all. Never had anyone play my rig that didn’t want to take it home when they were done. I’m playing mostly classic rock in my cover band from Zeppelin to VH to Bryan Adams to Rush and about everything in between. When I compare models to modules I can get them to sound incredibly close to one another to the point that if I wasn’t doing the switching I don’t know that I’d know. But why do that anyway? That’s not why I put the Synergy stuff in the rig.

Why put additional gear in the rig that would supposedly replace Cliffs code? Come on think about that statement again and then explain why the I/O is what it is on the III. It makes the III one of the most powerful rig centerpieces on the planet and allows any number of possibilities with additional gear. The fx in the III are top notch but is it throwing shade on it if you use your favorite drive pedal in one of the loops? It’s gear. It’s not about reducing to the least common denominator. Maybe it is for some.
 
skracus said:
Guys I run the Synergy stuff into the Axe-FXIII into an IR and then FRFR to a pair of Atomic CLR wedges. I put the Synergy Sag control at about noon or so and I’ve never once felt the need to do any power amp simulation in the III at all. Never had anyone play my rig that didn’t want to take it home when they were done. I’m playing mostly classic rock in my cover band from Zeppelin to VH to Bryan Adams to Rush and about everything in between. When I compare models to modules I can get them to sound incredibly close to one another to the point that if I wasn’t doing the switching I don’t know that I’d know. But why do that anyway? That’s not why I put the Synergy stuff in the rig.

Why put additional gear in the rig that would supposedly replace Cliffs code? Come on think about that statement again and then explain why the I/O is what it is on the III. It makes the III one of the most powerful rig centerpieces on the planet and allows any number of possibilities with additional gear. The fx in the III are top notch but is it throwing shade on it if you use your favorite drive pedal in one of the loops? It’s gear. It’s not about reducing to the least common denominator. Maybe it is for some.
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After using the Synergy modules with my AxeFxIII for the last 1.5 months— programming and tweaking the settings, it just dawned on me how incredibly powerful the AxeFX is as a rig centrepiece. I have presets with a combination of amp sounds from the Synergy and also those from the AxeFX. I just added a Eventide Eclipse to the rig and that helps to free up some CPU resources on AxeFx, which I then dedicate to more amps/cabs.

Also, and I might get shot for this, the Synergy modules just works well with my Fender Strat all single-coils p/u, especially when it comes to Marshall/high-gain stuff. Maybe I have not tweaked the amp models on the AxeFxIII enough. But with the Synergy modules, I just turn the knobs and voila! The Fender Strat just sounds good almost instantaneously. My rig now allows me the flexibility to use the Synergy modules for crunch/overdrive for the Strat while the AxeFx gives me the 'cleans' I need for this particular guitar. This is the beauty of the system. Yes, it does take away the simplicity of just using one unit. But the sonic possibilities of combining the AxeFx with other gear is just, wow!

Anyway, with the Bogner modules out for the Synergy, I am seriously considering getting a second Syn-2 enclosure. There is only one rackspace slot left in my 6U rack so I'm not sure of the heat generated...
 
Bingo! Serious power as the command module of a rig. I have both of the Bogner Modules and both are great. The Blue Channel of the Ecstacy is pure ear candy. Had and sent back the Vai module. Honestly it was already at a disadvantage for being Shrek Green but I didn't care for it enough to keep it. I spoke to Synergy about heat from multiple units and they told me they don't use fans on that huge stack of Syn 2's they use at the trade shows. That said I use one with three Syn 2's but not with two but I do have space above to allow the heat to dissipate.
 
skracus said:
Bingo! Serious power as the command module of a rig. I have both of the Bogner Modules and both are great. The Blue Channel of the Ecstacy is pure ear candy. Had and sent back the Vai module. Honestly it was already at a disadvantage for being Shrek Green but I didn't care for it enough to keep it. I spoke to Synergy about heat from multiple units and they told me they don't use fans on that huge stack of Syn 2's they use at the trade shows. That said I use one with three Syn 2's but not with two but I do have space above to allow the heat to dissipate.
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The 'Shrek Green' Vai module, ha ha!!!!!! Seriously, it is just so out of place with the rest of the modules, especially for your case with multiple Synergy-2 units.

My rack is deep so I might be able to add a fan at the back to draw out the heat.
 
Ok I have had all the axe fx’s through the years , live use no studio, now I have the axe fix III , LOVE THE EFFECTS AND WAH. But don’t have the time live to tweak . My question is I was thinking on incorporating the Black Widow MGP 1A , 3 channel guitar preamp for my preamps I then run. Fryette LX II power amp stereo into a 4x12 cabinet with Scumback speakers , get good clean and mild break ups but I feel the digital in my playing. I really love the axe fix III but not the simulated tube tones live. I have many rigs , full pedal boards Suhr amps old fender Vibroking etc . Your thoughts from live players ? This new tube midi black widow sounds like the answer to all worlds !
 
John Cortese said:
Ok I have had all the axe fx’s through the years , live use no studio, now I have the axe fix III , LOVE THE EFFECTS AND WAH. But don’t have the time live to tweak . My question is I was thinking on incorporating the Black Widow MGP 1A , 3 channel guitar preamp for my preamps I then run. Fryette LX II power amp stereo into a 4x12 cabinet with Scumback speakers , get good clean and mild break ups but I feel the digital in my playing. I really love the axe fix III but not the simulated tube tones live. I have many rigs , full pedal boards Suhr amps old fender Vibroking etc . Your thoughts from live players ? This new tube midi black widow sounds like the answer to all worlds !
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I have been playing on my AXE FX III and FM3 at home through a Synergy 50/50 for over a year and I am hoping to play them in a band setting again once the pandemic allows it to see how it really feels and sits in the mix with a drummer, bass, and vocalist.

I have been using a JMP-1 and a Triaxis for a reliable tube feel/tone and multiple/optional amp sounds for many years but I am hoping the Fractal stuff will replace them since I have a lot invested in them and they have improved a lot over the years for live applications through tube power amps.

I had considered getting a new Black Widow since it sounded pretty good in a few videos that I had come across and it has some preamp tubes for that tube sound/feel.

However, a friend of mine had reminded me about the resale value for them.

They are priced for a little less than $2,000 and it would probably be hard to sell it for even half that amount unless it was sold to someone who had been thinking of getting a new one (there really is no mention of them out there except for the "1" on Reverb (it's been there for years)).

My other concern was there might only be one or two amps that I even like playing on it and $2,000 is a lot to pay for something that only has a few things I would use on it.

There is no place to try one out as well so I can only rely upon the few videos for it.

I think the Synergy modules could be fun and they go on sale a few times a year at Sweetwater.

If you get the Black Widow then let us know how it worked out for you.
 
IMO the modeled preamps in the top tier units are already so good that there is not much point in using real tube preamps. I haven't tried my FM3 through my tube amps' poweramps yet but even the Helix preamps sounded very close to the real tube preamp in my Bogner. Convenience to me trumps any minor tonal difference you might experience and setting your levels correctly will matter when driving a real poweramp.

I do get the appeal of having real knobs to turn rather than virtual ones and encoders. It's more responsive and satisfying.
 
Just sold my axe fix III AND FC 12 controller , not my thing , great probably for studio , I am going to get the black widow, I mainly play live and have no time to edit on the fly , and I feel the difference when I play digital and tube. Sterile and ice picky ,cleans great distortions they don’t have it down yet. To most they don’t feel it I do!
 
John Cortese said:
Just sold my axe fix III AND FC 12 controller , not my thing , great probably for studio , I am going to get the black widow, I mainly play live and have no time to edit on the fly , and I feel the difference when I play digital and tube. Sterile and ice picky ,cleans great distortions they don’t have it down yet. To most they don’t feel it I do!
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Just make sure to check out the black widow IIRC the early one had no presets so it was more like a preamp with 3 channels and the knobs were not programmable and able to be stored
 
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