Axe-Fx III with Synergy preamp modules and MIDI

skracus said:
I use three SYN2’s with the III as the master. The SYN2’s are all in a single loop of the Axe-Fx and I control them with CC’s via the midi block. I still run FRFR and use the Cab Block. Essentially all I did was add a bunch of weight heat and complexity to my rig. Is it better? Completely subjective. I love it but I also still use the amp models on some presets. The midi block works flawlessly and is very quick. I setup a preset to level all the preamps. They have physical knobs so it’s easy to screw up your levels if you’re not paying attention. Once I have them sounding they way I want them to and the levels set I don’t touch them. If I do I go back through the leveling process again. I haven’t bothered to compare the modules to the Axe-FX models. I got the Synergy stuff because I like gear and I like the idea of having some knobs and physical hardware. Prior to getting the Synergy stuff I was using the III by itself without any complaints. I just happen to like gear.View attachment 59097
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That is mighty impressive, I must say! I have been enjoying the AFX3 on its own. I have a Humbucker-equipped guitar that works really well with most of the amp models. But somehow, things are not so rosy for my single-coil Strat. The high-gain amp models refused to work with my Strat. This is partly the reason why I'm trying analog preamps.

I hope it's not too much to ask for more details regarding the preset that you've created specifically for levelling?

Of, course we all love gear so there's that!
 
You do know these are largely a rebrand of the Egnater M4 ,in fact they are compatible . The original was Egnater for Rocktron then the one channel per module M4 and Randall RM4 then the dual channel M4 now this version with a Fryette power amp.
 
I remember when the Randall versions first came out, as others have said - I'm utterly bemused by the concept and how credible amp designers push them so much, to me it makes a mockery of their skill.

(I know a cynic would say it's the money they're after, and I'm afraid they're right)

It's completely nonsensical to say the only difference between (say) a Fender Blackface and a Friedman is the pre-amp circuit, it removes the OT, the power tubes, the power supply from the equation and basically says we never needed these all we needed was a pre-amp and a tone stack.

And remember these are the same people who are most vocal in saying modelling doesn't work, don't think this is down to chance.

Sorry if this is OT, needed to get that out! ;)
 
I don't think anybody is saying the preamp is the only difference between those amps. I don't think the designers are saying "Don't buy my $4000+ amp- this does the same thing." Maybe they did, I just missed it. The Synergy system (and the MTS system before that) just give you a way to mix and match components for your enjoyment- like pedals.

No argument that it is somewhat expensive. I've bought most of my stuff "one piece at a time" as Johnny Cash said, usually used at a more favorable price.

Also no argument that the Fractal doesn't sound and feel just as good when used in the same way. Its the same thing with pedals. Some people still enjoy using pedals even though they don't "need" them. I've thought many times about making a bunch of MIDI controller with MIDI IN/OUT, a switch and knobs to recreate the pedal experience, but I think you'd quickly run out of CC #s.
 
Felicidade1 there is nothing to the leveling preset. Straight into the Axe-Fx to the looper block to Output 3 to the SYN2's. Back into the Axe-Fx with Input 3 to the Cab Block out to Output 1. I connect to my Apollo interface via spdif so my input to the Apollo is unaffected by where the output 1 knob is on the Axe-Fx and scroll through each channel of each module setting each channel to an average of -12db strumming chords.

I had an M4 back in the day and after waiting 8 months I sent it back within a week of having it. It wasn't terrible I just didn't bond with it like I have the Synergy stuff. Full disclosure, I tried the Synergy stuff in 2017 and although it was good I sent it all back because it wasn't anything I couldn't do with the Axe-Fx. Decided to give it another go with the new modules available and with the I/O available on the III, the midi block etc. The Synergy stuff with the Axe-Fx III in the drivers seat is just a lot of fun for me.

Chris Hurley said "I just happen to like gear" is perhaps the best explanation of it." Maybe so but I'd add that it does sound different but I can do everything with just the Axe-Fx III too. I didn't integrate the Synergy gear to fill some tonal void I wasn't getting with the III. The III stands on its own just fine. Have fun with whatever gear makes it fun for you. If thats three rack spaces or 24 what does it matter?
 
Chris Hurley said:
I don't think anybody is saying the preamp is the only difference between those amps. I don't think the designers are saying "Don't buy my $4000+ amp- this does the same thing." Maybe they did, I just missed it. The Synergy system (and the MTS system before that) just give you a way to mix and match components for your enjoyment- like pedals.

No argument that it is somewhat expensive. I've bought most of my stuff "one piece at a time" as Johnny Cash said, usually used at a more favorable price.

Also no argument that the Fractal doesn't sound and feel just as good when used in the same way. Its the same thing with pedals. Some people still enjoy using pedals even though they don't "need" them. I've thought many times about making a bunch of MIDI controller with MIDI IN/OUT, a switch and knobs to recreate the pedal experience, but I think you'd quickly run out of CC #s.
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Apologies if I came across too strong, glad you're happy with them no slur intended
 
skracus said:
Felicidade1 there is nothing to the leveling preset. Straight into the Axe-Fx to the looper block to Output 3 to the SYN2's. Back into the Axe-Fx with Input 3 to the Cab Block out to Output 1. I connect to my Apollo interface via spdif so my input to the Apollo is unaffected by where the output 1 knob is on the Axe-Fx and scroll through each channel of each module setting each channel to an average of -12db strumming chords.

I had an M4 back in the day and after waiting 8 months I sent it back within a week of having it. It wasn't terrible I just didn't bond with it like I have the Synergy stuff. Full disclosure, I tried the Synergy stuff in 2017 and although it was good I sent it all back because it wasn't anything I couldn't do with the Axe-Fx. Decided to give it another go with the new modules available and with the I/O available on the III, the midi block etc. The Synergy stuff with the Axe-Fx III in the drivers seat is just a lot of fun for me.

Chris Hurley said "I just happen to like gear" is perhaps the best explanation of it." Maybe so but I'd add that it does sound different but I can do everything with just the Axe-Fx III too. I didn't integrate the Synergy gear to fill some tonal void I wasn't getting with the III. The III stands on its own just fine. Have fun with whatever gear makes it fun for you. If thats three rack spaces or 24 what does it matter?
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Thanks for the simple but useful tip. I just happen to like gear too.

I play guitar long enough to remember seeing Egnater M4 debut ads in magazines. It wasn't easy to get hold of gear from the U.S. and have them shipped to Singapore back in the days. So I have to give the M4 a pass. When I found out about the Synergy, I told myself that I have to try it despite the products rather lukewarm reception and mixed reviews— fearing that I might miss the boat again. The Synergy modules might not bring anything new to the table tonally compared to the AxeFx3. I think it'll be FUN to bring back some analog into my guitar-playing life.
 
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The thing to remember is that good tone is good tone and just because it is not "identical" to the amp the module is based on shouldn't really be that important. The M4 , RM4 and now Synergy are all great products and you will find your tone in at least some of the huge number of modules between them. A friend of mine has two M4s and a huge number of Randal and Egnater modules in his studio, oh and an X99 a Trio and countless other stuff so I pretty familiar with all of them.
 
rickboot said:
The Tube Pre model is a simple preamp for warming up inputs and not a full model of an amp head power section.
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Was that specified anywhere before in here? I was under the impression it's a full power amp model complete with a tube pre in front, like a 9200 has a tube pre input section...
 
Felicidade1 said:
The power amp issue is what makes me sat on the fence all these time since finding out about Synergy a year ago. I hope that with the modules, the preamp will do most of the work (tone-shaping, character). Frankly, I have been playing around with the AFX3 trying to get a good edge of breakup tone but have not been having much luck (I am still new to the unit so it could be user error).

I just hope that the Synergy modules will help me in achieving that. Combining with the effects of AFX3, I think it will be great.
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Edge of breakup on the III shouldn’t be a problem at all. The Fractal is incredibly dynamic and responds exactly like its real world counterparts do. Use the Input Trim parameter in the Amp Block to adjust your gain going into the amp without affecting the tone. Input Drive is your regular Gain parameter that you’d have on all amps, controls the preamp gain.
 
Perdikament said:
Edge of breakup on the III shouldn’t be a problem at all. The Fractal is incredibly dynamic and responds exactly like its real world counterparts do. Use the Input Trim parameter in the Amp Block to adjust your gain going into the amp without affecting the tone. Input Drive is your regular Gain parameter that you’d have on all amps, controls the preamp gain.
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Actually I think you’re correct but I am not sure of the power amp topology.

Cliff quite from the wiki:
"If you only need power amp modeling, for example when using an external pre-amp through the Axe-Fx, use the Tube Pre model. It uses the Vintage tonestack which is flat when the tone controls are at noon."
 
Remember the modules are not exact copies of the pre amp in the real amp they are tweaked to sound as close as possible to the original when paired with the syn power amp. They are very good and for the most part very close to the original amps.
 
rickboot said:
Actually I think you’re correct but I am not sure of the power amp topology.

Cliff quite from the wiki:
"If you only need power amp modeling, for example when using an external pre-amp through the Axe-Fx, use the Tube Pre model. It uses the Vintage tonestack which is flat when the tone controls are at noon."
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I wasn’t talking about using it in conjunction with the synergy. Imo, I can’t imagine a bigger waste of money & time. Keep in mind Cliff has designed everything to work together, (and it does quite nicely, just about to perfection I’d say) what you are attempting to do is remove a big chunk of the picture & replace it with someone else’s version of what Cliff has done, thinking they got that portion more right. Yet that person completely disregards crucial factors in the power section such as Class A topology in some of their models. The fact that they are willing to just completely disregard the power section, to me, is a major red flag. Ive never heard it, it could be fantastic, personally I firmly believe you’d be much better served by spending more time with the Fractal first and really learning what it’s truly capable of.
 
Lost on the Fractal reccomendation. Why use the tube-pre block for this on flat? The synergy already has tubes. So then the tube pre block would be doubling the effect.
If I decide to go with a solid state Crown power amp then I need power amp simulation only if im running the syn modules into the front end or loop. How do we get this power amp simulation from the axe fx 3?
I dont want to buy both the Crown power amp for IR creation and a syn 50 50 power amp for recording or live for the cab. I would prefer to only grab one power amp.
 
Djenter said:
Lost on the Fractal reccomendation. Why use the tube-pre block for this on flat? The synergy already has tubes. So then the tube pre block would be doubling the effect.
If I decide to go with a solid state Crown power amp then I need power amp simulation only if im running the syn modules into the front end or loop. How do we get this power amp simulation from the axe fx 3?
I dont want to buy both the Crown power amp for IR creation and a syn 50 50 power amp for recording or live for the cab. I would prefer to only grab one power amp.
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The tube pre sim is used as it's the most neutral pre amp in the Axe and it has a power amp sim build in, thus the best way in the Axe to get poweramb sim to your external preamp.
 
Perdikament said:
I wasn’t talking about using it in conjunction with the synergy. Imo, I can’t imagine a bigger waste of money & time. Keep in mind Cliff has designed everything to work together, (and it does quite nicely, just about to perfection I’d say) what you are attempting to do is remove a big chunk of the picture & replace it with someone else’s version of what Cliff has done, thinking they got that portion more right. Yet that person completely disregards crucial factors in the power section such as Class A topology in some of their models. The fact that they are willing to just completely disregard the power section, to me, is a major red flag. Ive never heard it, it could be fantastic, personally I firmly believe you’d be much better served by spending more time with the Fractal first and really learning what it’s truly capable of.
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Couldn't agree more, the perform screen addresses the tactile nature as well
 
peteri said:
Couldn't agree more, the perform screen addresses the tactile nature as well
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Honestly, just look at all of the parameters that are available to us in both the preamp & power amp sections of and then all of the other parameters as a whole in the Amp Block. There is nothing overlooked, and they all work, (dare I say) synergistically within Cliffs propriety code. Why would you want to rip out half his code and slap someone else’s version in there, especially when there’s not a true circuit designed to do so. You’re kinda forcing it in there or band-aid’ing it on for lack of a better description.
Sometimes I think the lure of the almighty tube is just too great for some & for others it’s chasing gear. Lord knows I was guilty & am so thankful those days are long gone. But that’s also one of the greatest things about Fractal, once ya really learn how it works & are able to dive deep & understand all the relationships of how one parameter or tweak effects another, you can really chase all the gear ya want right from your home.
 
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