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Axe FX III vs Real FUCHS ODS

bshaw92

Inspired
Interested in what the magic adjustment is to get these closer. This is the difference I hear when trying to earball my amps. It gets very close, but I am missing some of the open airy-ness (or whatever word you would use) of the tube amp. I mess with speaker edits, but would love to hear what to edit to make them line up. Good video. I have the Bassman ODS and have setup the Bludo for a similar sound.
 
Interested in what the magic adjustment is to get these closer. This is the difference I hear when trying to earball my amps. It gets very close, but I am missing some of the open airy-ness (or whatever word you would use) of the tube amp. I mess with speaker edits, but would love to hear what to edit to make them line up. Good video. I have the Bassman ODS and have setup the Bludo for a similar sound.
I didn't try to get it close, but if I did, I would mess a little with the supply sag, speaker compression, and speaker drive... that is what "felt" different. As far as the difference in EQ, I would rather do it in an PEQ block than on the amp controls.....

A couple things to keep in mind, since I'm running the amp into the load box and into the "FX Loop", there's additional cabling that could alter tone. Other variants could be tubes.... I guess the best way to do this would be to get my hands on the specific ODS that Cliff used to create the model, in that exact state. I did expect to hear differences, but I honestly thought it would be a lot different.
 

bshaw92

Inspired
I guess the best way to do this would be to get my hands on the specific ODS that Cliff used to create the model
That wouldn't mean as much as just adjusting yours to see if you can get the openness to be there. I think using what you did and how you did it was great. I actually have a preset in my AX8 for using my tube amp and run it back into the return through an IR so this video is very interesting to me as it opens up the very question I have and don't know how to fix....

I wouldn't worry about them being 100%, but I would love to get to the point that when you switch back and forth they have the same character, texture and air-ness (or whatever word is used to describe).

Well Done.
 

Django_Stache

New Member
Is it just me, or did anyone else hear that wolf-tone or ghost note by the fractal in the first deep switch lick? That was sweet.

Great video!
 

unix-guy

Legend!
The difference between the 2 seems more obvious on the Deep version. The other sounded very close to me (listening on Apple ear buds).

A couple questions:

  1. what's the Cab block look like?
  2. Why 2 Reverb blocks?
 
The difference between the 2 seems more obvious on the Deep version. The other sounded very close to me (listening on Apple ear buds).

A couple questions:

  1. what's the Cab block look like?
  2. Why 2 Reverb blocks?
The cabs are 167 and 106 blended.... I pan them about 20/-20.... not too much. Low Cut around 85 Hz and Hi Cut at 10K.

The reverbs, I have from a previous use I had of this preset, but one is a small room and the other Recording Studio C, and I have them set differently... the mix is very low on them for this video so you can't tell, but if you saw my Eleanor Rigby video, it's the same reverb scenario... I find that it gives it a nice roomy sound.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
The cabs are 167 and 106 blended.... I pan them about 20/-20.... not too much. Low Cut around 85 Hz and Hi Cut at 10K.

The reverbs, I have from a previous use I had of this preset, but one is a small room and the other Recording Studio C, and I have them set differently... the mix is very low on them for this video so you can't tell, but if you saw my Eleanor Rigby video, it's the same reverb scenario... I find that it gives it a nice roomy sound.
Cool, thanks for the details.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Deep model sounds a little different. A couple points:
1. The X-Load is equivalent to setting the LF Resonance to about 4. The model probably defaults to a value higher than that. With the Voicing switch set to UK the LF Resonant Frequency is about 100, with it set to US it's around 70.
2. The Master Volume is the only knob in the amp models that may not have the same taper as the real amp. All the models use the same taper (10A IIRC) for consistency. Many amps use a more abrupt taper for marketing reasons. A more abrupt taper gives the impression that the amp is louder.

I can hear the "power amp" in the deep model working harder than the actual amp which is probably due to the above two points. The models are also slightly darker which will also occur when the power amp is overdriven more.
 
The Deep model sounds a little different. A couple points:
1. The X-Load is equivalent to setting the LF Resonance to about 4. The model probably defaults to a value higher than that. With the Voicing switch set to UK the LF Resonant Frequency is about 100, with it set to US it's around 70.
2. The Master Volume is the only knob in the amp models that may not have the same taper as the real amp. All the models use the same taper (10A IIRC) for consistency. Many amps use a more abrupt taper for marketing reasons. A more abrupt taper gives the impression that the amp is louder.

I can hear the "power amp" in the deep model working harder than the actual amp which is probably due to the above two points. The models are also slightly darker which will also occur when the power amp is overdriven more.
Thanks for that explanation. That certainly makes a lot of sense.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
I don't know what you guys are talking about. It sounds incredibly close. Sure they sound a bit different but I would expect differences like this between one amp and another. Awesome video and well done! :)
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I don't know what you guys are talking about. It sounds incredibly close. Sure they sound a bit different but I would expect differences like this between one amp and another. Awesome video and well done! :)
They sound very close but I hear slight differences. My ears are highly tuned to this stuff. The two points I made above can be used to eliminate those tiny differences.
 

bshaw92

Inspired
The two points I made above can be used to eliminate those tiny differences.
So is your recommendation for getting that open sound more closely representing the tube amp to simply lower the master volume and adjust the eq as needed? No other changes to other parameters in speaker or pre sections?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
So is your recommendation for getting that open sound more closely representing the tube amp to simply lower the master volume and adjust the eq as needed? No other changes to other parameters in speaker or pre sections?
No, point #1 talks about adjusting the speaker resonance parameters. See post #14.
 

bshaw92

Inspired
right, but I get that difference even when using a weber mass versus a two notes captor. However, the tube amp still has an open feel versus a tighter rigid feel. That is a different thing than what my question was. See post #5.

Likely it's due to a model following specific criteria when being played through versus real life variances that happen in the circuit?? Just trying to get some guidance on things to try in an effort to get that slight variation closer.
 
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