Axe-Fx III vs Helix

I'll also admit that before fractal I was an analog snob and an all tube guy

My pedalboard had about 3 various tube preamp before it even got to the amp

Even with all the 't00bz' and expensive analog pedals, I came across some old performance videos where I used them and though I thought the playing was on point, the overall feel was lackluster and not inspiring.

I also came across some videos in that same search where I saw performances where I switched to the fractal. The difference was night and day, and the sound was kickass and juicy from the first chord.

I'm notorious for cutting the bottom end to give the other instruments to occupy their space properly - up to 250/300hz! Even with these generous cuts, it was still a soaring, juicy, thick, crunchy and inviting tone, and it was little wonder why the audiences started giving compliments

Bottom line is fractal makes a DIFFERENCE

Whether you can hear it or not, it is obvious to the people that can, don't settle for anything less
 
jon said:
I'll also admit that before fractal I was an analog snob and an all tube guy

My pedalboard had about 3 various tube preamp before it even got to the amp

Even with all the 't00bz' and expensive analog pedals, I came across some old performance videos where I used them and though I thought the playing was on point, the overall feel was lackluster and not inspiring.

I also came across some videos in that same search where I saw performances where I switched to the fractal. The difference was night and day, and the sound was kickass and juicy from the first chord.

I'm notorious for cutting the bottom end to give the other instruments to occupy their space properly - up to 250/300hz! Even with these generous cuts, it was still a soaring, juicy, thick, crunchy and inviting tone, and it was little wonder why the audiences started giving compliments

Bottom line is fractal makes a DIFFERENCE

Whether you can hear it or not, it is obvious to the people that can, don't settle for anything less
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You're saying your Fractal rig sounded better than the analog and tube gear it emulates? That sounds more like a long-term upgrade of the wetware involved :)
 
Well there's lots to getting a good tube sound too - and tubes and analog gear can be VERY finicky!

Not to mention the volume you have to get to make things sound great (hence the tube pedals too)

Forget about troubleshooting if you get problems-just switch to the backup - which is a case all by itself!

Did I mention the NOISEEEEEE and HISSSSS?
Man, before I literally won't play a gig without my decimator pro rack g!

And it STILL all depends on if your soundman knows what he's doing or if you bought him a beer 🍺

Now, I just give the soundman my XLR cable and I go have fun - the way it SHOULD be ;)
 
jon said:
Even if they both supposedly sound identical, which they don't, the feel is very different

Additionally I have never gotten compliments on my tone when playing live with line 6 stuff, but I have gotten rave compliments and non stop questions with my fractal

EVERY
Single
Gig

So you would think the audience doesn't know the difference, and maybe they don't - but they can definitely detect something is different, and that's why there will ALWAYS be a fractal in my rig
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Well, all I can say to that is that it sounds like wankery.

You're implying that a Fractal sounds better than an amp - yet it is emulating amps. You're suggesting that nobody every commented on your tone before Fractal - which suggests you didn't know how to get a great tone before Fractal.

What's so funny is that the Helix forums and groups on Facebook are saying the same things in reverse. It's called confirmation bias.

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE my AxeFx3. But I also love my Helix Rack. And my guitars - all of 'em. I don't post rubbish about how an audience member congratulated me on the tone of my '62 L-series Strat or my Suhr Guthrie Govan Custom. My guitars are all different, but they're all good. Not a case of one is better than the other. Same goes for the AxeFx and the Helix. And they feel slightly different to play - not better/worse, just different.

I think we sometimes forget that ALL modellers are emulating other amps/effects etc. None of them has its own sound. Different amps have different sounds and different feels, and so do different amp models on different modellers. But they are ALL good.

Your argument is like a BMW owner and a Mercedes owner each arguing that THEIR car is better.

How's that for having a stir?? ;)
 
It's clear there will always be a difference in opinions when it comes to anything one buys. No matter what it may be.

What I've experienced with line 6 native isn't like "you will never find a good tone." Scratch tone all together. The tube feel or lack of better term, the bounce you get from hitting the strings. I've tried just about everything, software etc, and their all missing this key ingredient to sound like a real amp. This is something Cliff has done nicely. The rest including line 6 all sound and feel stiff. No bounce, just a thud/scratchy sound.

And if you can't hear this, than that's awesome for you and whoever else, because it makes your life a lot easier. For those of us who can (speaking for myself) it sucks in a lot of ways, cause you hear all these imperfections if you will, which can drive a person crazy. Lets all just enjoy what we have or can afford and be happy and make some music. These subjects can go on forever.
 
Heavyplayer said:
It's clear there will always be a difference in opinions when it comes to anything one buys. No matter what it may be.
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Ain't that the truth..! :) As I said, I love my AxeFx3, but I recognise that Cliff has created (and maintains) a superb unit that is immensely versatile, feels great, and sounds great. We can also easily create terrible noises from it if we want to. And my point is that the same applies to the Helix. Or the GT-1000. Or even - dare I say it - the Hotone Ampero. It's all in how it's used and programmed. There are some terrific presets available for the Helix, apart from what I can do myself. The factory presets are ho-hum, but some people like Marco Fanton, Chad Huskey, John Cordy, Richie Castellano, and several others, can conjure up some fabulous presets on a Helix. And they feel great to play.

I've been a studio (and live) player for decades, and I do know how different amps (and modellers) feel as well as sound. And in general, they can all be used to get bad, good, or great sounds, as can almost any real amp. Or guitar. Or pedal. Or preamp. Or FOH system. Or whatever you play your modeller through. Fractal is superb. All I'm saying is that too many people feel the need to justify their choice by saying the others are no good. As someone who owns multiple modellers (including AxeFx, Helix, Ampero, GT-1000, HxStomp, and others), I can get so many sounds out of them all, I enjoy the feel of playing them all in different situations, and I enjoy listening to them all, especially when played by people like Marco, Burgs, etc. Those guys can get great sounds out of a toilet roll...! ;)
 
Doc Rock said:
dare I say it - the Hotone Ampero.
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A lot of tech does seem to be trickling down to the cheap stuff now (ie - I've noticed practically every modeller now comes with IR loading capability, something only the best modellers could do not that long ago) - Tiz a good era to play the guitar.
 
Doc Rock said:
All I'm saying is that too many people feel the need to justify their choice by saying the others are no good.
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True. And many people justify their choice by trying all contenders and choosing one based on obvious differences in quality. I will say one positive thing about Helix: it isn't as stiff as a Rockman.
 
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Doc Rock said:
All I'm saying is that too many people feel the need to justify their choice by saying the others are no good.
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This ESPECIALLY becomes the case once that person has dropped a LOT of their product. That goes for a $5000 Klon just as much as a Fractal modeler which costs on average $1000 more then the Line 6 competition. You gotta rationalize to yourself that your expensive unit is actually worth that $1000 more then the competition. And to me it is, because I like the ability to run crazy long effects chains. If it was just the amp modeling any cheap unit could have done the trick. IR's do most of the work anyway. And that is my story and I'm sticking to it. Yes sirree! No bias here whatsoever!
 
Someone’s opinion that they think both sound the same doesn’t mean others are wrong for noticing a difference. For me it’s night and day as well. If it’s not for you, that’s ok. But that doesn’t mean I’m imagining things, making things up, or having buyers remorse. I think there is a major difference. In videos where the player compares them and says there’s no difference, I hear a difference.

Are both usable? Sure. But I spent days trying to get my friend’s helix to sound close to my basic AX8 tones and there was always something missing. He still used it, and in the mix it was fine. But there was a big difference.

Again, if someone doesn’t hear or notice a difference, that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
 
Wow 😳 didn't mean to butthurt you line 6 guys like that 😂

If you can hear it, you can, if you can't hear it, well you can't - no worries. I'm just relating my experiences, yours will be different.

The helix sounds good, don't get me wrong, but it's nowhere to my ears near the axe.

I can make the axe sound like the helix and fool myself in a blind listening test, but I can't make the helix sound like the axe, period. I'm not the first to note that the axe sounds better than many tube amps it models - there is many a story of people here who bring out their old tube amps after some time, play it and put it right back.

I don't need to "confirm bias" my purchase - I buy/sell/trade a LOT of gear, from lots of different manufacturers and the good ones stay, the crappy ones are sold - simple as that - no line 6 has stayed with me yet

I know some guys probably have to justify their 'expensive' purchase, but I can tell you - am a synth guy as well, and no stranger to hefty price tags - my cheapest vintage synth is still well above the price of the axe - you synth guys know the outrageous price tags on these things - so the axe is a bargain if you ask me! Matter of fact, I sold a helix last year to help purchase a backup axe iii!

Tone is indeed all in your fingers, but I noticed I definitely sound better going through a a mesa than a behringer, just my personal observations, YMMV
 
The only Line 6 stuff I have is a DL-4, a few Tonecore pedals and my pride and joy the Echo Pro. Which has been sitting in a rack unused for the better part of 10 years now I guess? I wouldn't call myself a Line 6 guy. However, whenever somebody does a demo, putting up the Axe-FX against the Kemper and the Helix I pretty much go nope, don't hear much of a difference. If its night and day to you I pity you because you must have the Golden Ears of Gods. In which case few things in life will pass judgment to you. Whatever difference I hear in these comparison videos at no point ever gave me the idea that it justifies dropping an extra $1000 or €1000 on the Axe-FX. The biggest turnoff on the Line 6 Pod HD 500 I used to have wasn't the sound, but that I was promised it could run 8 effects in series. And it couldn't. Yeah maybe if you used only DSP light effects. But chuck in a delay and a reverb, a dirt box, maybe a whammy and after that you were pretty much effed up the A in what more you could add. The Axe-FX on the other hand was the first modeler that allowed me to run long FX chains. That to me is what justifies dropping an extra $1000 on the unit. It doesn't just replace your amp, it replaces your entire rig! Amp models? Meh, dime a dozen, especially this day. IR's can be basically the same on every unit so they're no issue at all. Yeah, of course it has to sound good, but overall modeling in generals has gone up. Even producers like Rick Beato have little to complain about modelers, except the unoriginality they claim it creates in its users. But the sounds are good to them regardless of the Axe-FX, Kemper or Helix. So if I were to get a new unit to replace my Axe-FX price and DSP would be my main determining factor. Not amp modeling, not one bit.
 
chris said:
Someone’s opinion that they think both sound the same doesn’t mean others are wrong for noticing a difference
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I never said they sound the same. Or different. Just that one is not "better" than the other in the same way a Strat is not 'better' than a Les Paul or vice versa. Too many people seem to need to justify their choice. My point was that there's no need to justify any choice. Some people like Strats, some like LPs, and some - such as me - like both, as well as many others. There's absolutely no need for a superiority complex in either camp, Fractal or Helix. They are different in many respects, they both sound great with the right presets and in the right hands, and I'm happy to have both, just as I'm happy to have several different guitars. And synths. I have lots of synths. And there's no way to say that any one synth is 'better' than the others. And I don't need to say that.

And on that note - I'm outa this conversation to go play with my - err, AxeFx, or will it be the Helix? Or the Ampero? Or the GT-1000? o_O
 
Muad'zin said:
dropping an extra $1000 or €1000 on the Axe-FX
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Axefx is actually not expensive compared to Helix Floor - About +33% (700 cdn$) around here including shipping and exchange rate. Considering huge Dsp diffetence, routing capability, and free firmware updates alone (+ there's more objective differences), Axefx is very inexpensive (or Helix Expensive depending on your outlook).
 
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jon said:
Even if they both supposedly sound identical, which they don't, the feel is very different

Additionally I have never gotten compliments on my tone when playing live with line 6 stuff, but I have gotten rave compliments and non stop questions with my fractal

EVERY
Single
Gig

So you would think the audience doesn't know the difference, and maybe they don't - but they can definitely detect something is different, and that's why there will ALWAYS be a fractal in my rig
Click to expand...
What you describe here is just anecdote. Can you please explain by feel what do you mean, in your own use cases?
 
I believe that this thread is serving its purpose, while also proving to be useless. The OP asked for "honest opinions" from people who have had experience with both products. The answers have ranged from both being equal but different to the Helix being far behind the Axe in tone and feel. All of these opinions are honest ones. So where does that leave us?

Whether the OP hears or feels a difference will depend on his unique senses. But the fact is, Helix and Axe-FX sound and feel different in a MAJOR way. They are not even close. That is not an opinion. It is a fact; one that is not negated by someone's inability to discern these differences. If a listener with hearing loss cannot perceive the presence of 5,000 Hz, it does not mean that a band-limited system is the same as one of full bandwidth. If a colorblind observer cannot perceive the difference between a green object and a red one, that doesn't mean that the two objects are the same color. To these observers, these very real differences are of no consequence. But they still exist and can be perceived by others. The same can be said of differences in the brain as far as perception is concerned. I have an acute sense of taste and smell, but I cannot differentiate between a fine wine and a cheap one. I don't have the training or experience. But I know with certainty that others (especially wine makers) can easily tell the difference.

As I've said before, Helix Native is free for anyone to try. Try it, and hear/feel what your unique senses tell you.
 
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steadystate said:
True. And many people justify their choice by trying all contenders and choosing one based on obvious differences in quality. I will say one positive thing about Helix: it isn't as stiff as a Rockman.
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I dont think people try all contenders at all.
 
Budda said:
I dont think people try all contenders at all.
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At all? No one? Ever? Including me?

A contender is any appropriate product available for audition and in the buyer's price range. It isn't each and every product on the market. For some people, neither the Axe III nor the Helix are contenders because of the price. I know I've tried everything I could find in my price range that I could demo in person. And if I decide on something and a better product comes along, nothing will prevent me from changing my mind, selling the original gear, and buying something else. I know of musicians here in town who do the same. We compare each other's gear as well.

And sure, plenty of people buy the first thing they see because of price/convinience/recommendation/whatever and are totally happy with it for many years. No blanket generalization applies to everyone.
 
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