Axe-Fx III vs Helix

I owned the Helix twice for a total of about two years. Actually the Helix and the LT. Over that time I also owned the AX8, Kemper, and tried the Atomic Ampli-fire and the Headrush Gigboard. Happy to give an unbiased review.

Short answer is that the Helix is a fun, powerful, easy to use device that is incredibly well designed and supported, but ultimately does not sound or feel as good as the Fractal. The amp modeling tends to sound and feel flat and two dimensional, lacking low end punch, and not cleaning up well with guitar volume. The cab modeling is also really bad, making the amps even thinner and more nasally (stick with impulses). Effects are generally good but tend to be more colorful stomp style than rich/lush rack quality (and the reverbs are still weak). They've done a great job adding new models and supporting the product, but the pace of updates has slowed substantially over the last year. Native is a really cool piece of software though which is identical in sound to the hardware unit and makes for easy re-amping.

But for me, as much as I liked the idea of the Helix and had some success with it, I mostly felt frustrated and limited. The AX8 had pros and cons to it as well, and I briefly tried the Kemper but didn't get along with it. When I got the Axe III, I felt like I didn't have to compromise on nearly as many things. I don't gig so I don't have to deal with carrying around a rack or anything, so at home it works great.

I've been through the Helix stuff twice and I still have Native...I won't bother with it unless they do a significant modeling overhaul (like Fractal will do periodically), although everything I've heard is that they don't really operate that way.
 
I owned the Helix twice for a total of about two years. Actually the Helix and the LT. Over that time I also owned the AX8, Kemper, and tried the Atomic Ampli-fire and the Headrush Gigboard. Happy to give an unbiased review.

Short answer is that the Helix is a fun, powerful, easy to use device that is incredibly well designed and supported, but ultimately does not sound or feel as good as the Fractal. The amp modeling tends to sound and feel flat and two dimensional, lacking low end punch, and not cleaning up well with guitar volume. The cab modeling is also really bad, making the amps even thinner and more nasally (stick with impulses). Effects are generally good but tend to be more colorful stomp style than rich/lush rack quality (and the reverbs are still weak). They've done a great job adding new models and supporting the product, but the pace of updates has slowed substantially over the last year. Native is a really cool piece of software though which is identical in sound to the hardware unit and makes for easy re-amping.

But for me, as much as I liked the idea of the Helix and had some success with it, I mostly felt frustrated and limited. The AX8 had pros and cons to it as well, and I briefly tried the Kemper but didn't get along with it. When I got the Axe III, I felt like I didn't have to compromise on nearly as many things. I don't gig so I don't have to deal with carrying around a rack or anything, so at home it works great.

I've been through the Helix stuff twice and I still have Native...I won't bother with it unless they do a significant modeling overhaul (like Fractal will do periodically), although everything I've heard is that they don't really operate that way.

I've owned all the of the big modelers, Fractal, Amplifire, Kemper except for the Helix. I got an HX stomp on the way and will try it out. I tried Native but wasn't a fan cause my Presonus USB interface sucks and colored the sound too much. The III has a good interface and I know the HX stomp has one as well. I tried my best to get into the Amplifire but alot of the models simply didn't have enough gain, I know Cliff mentioned this one time and he was right. I did seem to me like the Plexi model was a little better on the Helix Native than the fractals for some reason. Kemper was great but didn't like how you can't really mess with the eq knobs without it altering the sound alot in a bad way.
 
I haven’t used a Helix or a iii but from studying the manual the iii is insanely more flexible and allows much more control over details and foot switch setup.
 
My honest opinion is the Axe sounds a lot better than the Helix to my ears anyway. I bought a Helix a couple of months back for a slightly smaller rig. It's ok but it's just not for me. It's up for sale now and have decided to put the cash towards the FM3. There's nothing wrong with the Helix but it's just I find the Axe easier to work with and knowing it can do pretty much anything I need it to. I did a little test recently didn't use my Axe for a few days on purpose and just used the Helix. I was struggling and went back to the Axe the next day and said "There's the sound I was missing" Like Jarick said I too was frustrated and limited with the helix.

CPU was an issue on the Helix and I couldn't add certain blocks to my " kitchen sink preset". I was disappointed about that. The Axe can handle it all no problem.

A big thing for me was the ability to have different channels on the same block. I use 3 amps in my main preset and switching between them within scenes is just really easy. The Helix couldn't do that with everything in the preset I could only add my clean amp and my dirty amp and use snapshots to change between them.

The Pitch block is another thing I don't like about the Helix, it can't do the virtual capo thing not yet anyway. Plus I just don't think it sounds very good. Also no decent auto wah in the Helix. In the Axe you can use the same wah model and just use an LFO to make it auto. Can't do that in the Helix. I'm sure there's more I could say, but at the end of the day you know what sounds good to your own ears and what you like to use.
 
I own both axe iii and helix native.
Helix sounds ok but its a totally different feeling playing it. I don't know if the hardware version is any different.
I would go with my axe any time....but the helix native comes in really handy for practice/jamming when you are away from home with only a laptop, soundcard and your guitar :)
 
I moved from the Helix Floor to the Axe FX III about four weeks ago. The things that the Helix has going for it is the great UI (very easy to navigate around), the all-in-one form factor, the huge amount of on-line support (the main FB group has 26K members) and the fact that it can sound great with the right tweaks. However, the things about the Axe FX III that struck me almost immediately were (1) The stock presets actually sound good (the Helix ones are truly terrible IMO); (2) the stock amps sound good at stock settings making it much easier to get good tones quickly; (3) The Axe FX III delays and reverbs are way better; (4) It's about impossible to run out of DSP (easy to do on the Helix); (5) firmware updating via FractalBot is a dream (I have yet to read of someone bricking their Axe FX as a result of a firmware update); (6) each firmware update seems to really add something useful; (7) addition of the FC-12 creates a ridiculously flexible live rig, and if that's not enough, just chain another one. Brilliant; (8) Meters . . they are everywhere in the Axe FX III and nowhere to be found in the Helix (probably its most requested feature); (9) the ability to control so many parameters via controllers, and a range of controllers that go far beyond those in the Helix (pretty much limited to EPs and footswitches); (10) pitch shifting - light years ahead of Helix's monophonic offerings; (11) grid-style signal path is incredibly flexible, which combined with the massive DSP makes it possible to design presets that are impossible in Helix; (12) the huge number of amps and cabs - you'll never run out of new sounds to try; (13) Channels. OMG, what a great concept; (14) the big range of effects and the ability to edit and blend them; (15) Block Library - again, much requested by Helix users, but yet to be implemented. I could probably go on, but I'm still learning (a process hugely accelerated by Cooper Carter's class BTW). No regrets here.
 
Yeah I always loved the Fractal. The only thing personally is that I never used 1/10th of the features. The Tone Match feature was great in theory but the results were hit or miss for me. I also never needed to use all these diff channels and I didn't need alot of blocks unless it was for some crazy effect heavy preset like a Pink Floyd patch. It's great for someone who needs all those features though. But the Fractal effects are astoundingly good.
 
To me, Kemper would be the best if only the eq knobs would function like the amp they are profiling but I assume that's impossible to do since it's a snapshot of an amp and not a model.
 
I tried quite a few and to be honest the axe is the only modeling device that FEELS like an amp, the rest just sound so lifeless and don't 'breathe', so consistently, time after time, those other device get thrown to the side after a short time and are sold shortly after.

Plus most of the other fx are an afterthought and not really good. The axe does a top notch job at EVERY SINGLE BLOCK, which is honestly unheard of in this industry. Compare that to line 6 where there are a couple good sounding amps and a couple decent fx. The axe has HUNDREDS of amps that are spot on dead on the money with a mind boggling high quality IR set, and every block is a high quality well thought out block.

It's not even a fight, tbh. The axe is unparalleled in terms of sound, support, progression, quality, flexibility and so much more

The real fight is deciding whether to get an FC6 or FC 12 to control it :p
 
I travelled through the Helix on the way to Fractal, prior to both I was tube amp and massive pedalboard.

When I got the Helix, it nearly went back - I found it flat and overly compressed compared to 'real'.

Over time, I got the hang of it and got very good sounds out of it - it's easy to program and the best product Line 6 have made I think (I've had nearly all of them from AmpFarm).

BUT what frustrated me is it wasn't real world - meaning, I'd have to set the controls at a different place than I would in the real world, and do 'tricks' such as putting a compressor where I wouldn't normally etc. All of which really negated decades of 'real world' experience

However, I did like it.

So I got an AX8 to see what this Fractal business was - best thing I did, sold the Helix, the amp, all the pedals within a month or so (kept my King of Tone but never use it).

The big difference for me was I didn't need to do the 'tricks', I could set the tone knobs where I would in the real world etc. I didn't need to put compressor where I wouldn't, didn't need to play with impedance settings etc.

With Fractal I find everything works as I'd expect it to - and that's what I love about it, and crank the PA (I'm FRFR) and good grief, it's good!
 
Didn't bond with a Helix Rack and luckily as I was returning it to GC they had a used AXE3(shocked, amazed, lucky). There is no comparison. I've owned a Kemper for 5 years, and will hold onto it, as it equally satisfying to play(just a different approach to getting there). But, I love the FAS community(Kemper owners are great, the corporate peeps, can get a little bitchy) and what can one say negatively about the hourly FW updates:blush:! Just a great experience in my 2 months of owning it.
 
I owned the Helix twice for a total of about two years. Actually the Helix and the LT. Over that time I also owned the AX8, Kemper, and tried the Atomic Ampli-fire and the Headrush Gigboard. Happy to give an unbiased review.

Short answer is that the Helix is a fun, powerful, easy to use device that is incredibly well designed and supported, but ultimately does not sound or feel as good as the Fractal. The amp modeling tends to sound and feel flat and two dimensional, lacking low end punch, and not cleaning up well with guitar volume. The cab modeling is also really bad, making the amps even thinner and more nasally (stick with impulses). Effects are generally good but tend to be more colorful stomp style than rich/lush rack quality (and the reverbs are still weak). They've done a great job adding new models and supporting the product, but the pace of updates has slowed substantially over the last year. Native is a really cool piece of software though which is identical in sound to the hardware unit and makes for easy re-amping.

But for me, as much as I liked the idea of the Helix and had some success with it, I mostly felt frustrated and limited. The AX8 had pros and cons to it as well, and I briefly tried the Kemper but didn't get along with it. When I got the Axe III, I felt like I didn't have to compromise on nearly as many things. I don't gig so I don't have to deal with carrying around a rack or anything, so at home it works great.

I've been through the Helix stuff twice and I still have Native...I won't bother with it unless they do a significant modeling overhaul (like Fractal will do periodically), although everything I've heard is that they don't really operate that way.

Good assessment! I have all 3 big boy toys, Axe FX III, Helix, and Kemper Stage. All have pros/cons, but there are a lot less cons for Axe FX III (mostly the rack and separate pedalboard, which can also be a pro).

I use Helix mostly at the church gigs, and for cramped venues, and when I'm in a hurry and want one or two less items to carry. Great for air/long distance travel where space is a concern as well.

I would say the last several Axe FX III firmware updates have distanced the competition more between it and the other two.

Kemper has some nice tones when you get the right profiles, but the effects are serviceable, but behind Helix and Axe 3!
 
I haven't used the floor version, but the Helix native on PC. It sounded like an update of the 1996 Pod, for the life of me I couldn't understand how it would sound good. Maybe the physical versions sound better, but I was told they are the same. I was baffled.

Axe3 though, well... Like real amps, only better.
 
I own pretty much all of the modelers for some reason ; and some traditional amps, too. Too much disposable income and a tendency toward habitual gear collection, I suppose. First world problems and all that.

Anyway here's my personal awesomeness hierarchy for general amp modeling technology based on my preferences (decidedly heavy sounds, starting at classic rock up to modern metal with an emphasis on 80s hair and thrash sounds):

AFX3 > AFX2 > Atomic > Helix

Helix is a good unit and has a lot of value to offer (it is great compared to other Line 6 products). But tonally both the II and III iteration of the AxeFx are pretty far beyond it in terms of feel and accuracy to IRL tube tones that I go for.

It is popular on boards like TGP etc to quell flame wars to say "everything is so good now that it doesn't really matter or; it is a matter of taste/opinion" and other platitudes to keep the peace but honestly, it ifeels like a substantial unbridgeable gap if you are picky and have tastes/experiences similar to mine. :D

In particular in Helix the feel is definitely off, you know you are playing a processor when you use it, it just doesn't feel tubey to me. Even the amplifire smokes the Helix there. This is the biggest gap.

Soundwise, the Helix frequency response in the high end of distorted tones is 'off' it has too much of some frequencies and not enough of others relative to what my expectations are for the modeled amps and other processors (FAS, Kemper, Atomic, et al). Once you notice/hear this it is impossible to dial the thing in without it grating on you somewhat, IMHO. You can EQ and pick different IRs, etc; but it feels like you are fighting the unit for that last few % of your tone wheras the FAS units just deliver it directly from the start.

In terms of power amp modeling nothing compares to Fractal. The III just took a BIG leap here too. I cannot wait to replace the Atomic and Line 6 with the FM3 when it drops. ;)
 
I also own both and have for some time.

For pure amp / cab sound and feel its not even close. It's III by miles. say all the cliches, they are true.
FWIW, no future firmware update can get the Helix "there". Its just not even close enough to discuss.
If you are recording or playing in a place with great sound, you want a Fractal. Full stop.

The only reason I haven't sold the Helix is convenience. It's a 10 on convenience in every way, the III is not, and while its not close to the III it doesn't sound bad either. In a practice space with my band, the difference doesn't matter frankly. It's so damn noisy (other bands nearby) convenience wins.

At some humble gigs, the difference isn't really important either. The audience isn't hearing the difference really, the cymbal crashes have nuked their hearing. Its for me more then them when I bring the III. I feel the difference and hear it - and maybe the musicians in the audience do to.

I'd love to swap it out for an FM3, but that is ???
I think a chunk of Helix and other floor competitors will hit the for sale area when the FM3 is available.

-P
 
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