Axe-Fx III tone/feel vs. Kemper?

I've owned both and IMHO the battle for tone/feel is over. At this point, both the AxeFXIII and the KPA are indistinguishable from a mic'ed real amp. The battleground has now moved on to other things: CPU power, I/O flexibility, remote control, faithfully mimicing the controls of the real amp, preset editing and management, effects variety and quality, user interface, the ability to create presets that go beyond any real amp, multiple amps in a preset, etc.

If you look at that list, it's hard to see how the KPA and AxeFXIII could even be considered competitors. The KPA is a worthy competitor for the AX8, but the AxeFXIII is in a different class entirely.
 
GlennO said:
The KPA is a worthy competitor for the AX8, but the AxeFXIII is in a different class entirely.
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Part 1 is not accurate. The AX8 is great, but does not have the same amp characteristics the KPA and Axe 3 posses.

Part 2 - This. The ability to do so much is what puts it out of just the tone/feel comparison. You can literally plug 2 guitars a bass and an acoustic into the Axe 3 and run your whole band. It's very hard to look past those facts when the sound is very similar.
 
Bigeclipse said:
I know this is a fractal forum and I will likely receive biased answers but im looking for some honest feedback from those of you who own both or have a lot of experience with both. I hear from time to time that the Kemper has a better tube "feel/tone" than even the newest the AXEIII. Maybe I just don't have super tone ears but in my limited experience with a Kemper and an AXe2 I didn't really "feel" or "hear" much of a difference when they were both setup on excellently made presets. The axeIII certainly blows the kemper out of the water on high gain tones and effects but just curious about the other less gainy tube tones and feel? Thanks
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The best opinion you can get would be your own. Use the trail period to see if it works for you...no risk if you don’t gel with it.
 
This is a great conversation!

I've had a journey over the last few years...owned Helix and AX8 twice and tested the Amplifire and Headrush units. I also recently bought a Kemper and have used it for a few months but decided to sell it and now thinking about an Axe III.

The feel of the Kemper is great and the ability to clean up with a volume knob is the best I've used so far (AX8 was next, Headrush was pretty good, Helix not as much). I'm curious how the Axe compares, especially against the AX8 (older modeling).

Profiling is really cool in some ways and a drag in others. The quality is great and of course users can create their own content. Tweaking profiles is very effective as well, much more so than a lot of people throw around. But for me the cabinet module is a disconnect. You can pay $20 for a set of profiles that are done with a speaker you don't like and you're kind of locked into that tone.

At the end of the day, I missed being able to build my own patches and use IR's for cabinet modeling rather than having those ingrained with the amp profile. Combined with aging or lack of development in effects which lag the Fractal/Helix and being locked into the Kemper workflow.
 
The truth is, we are the ones that win with the competition. It's the same way with Ronaldo and Messi. LeBron and Kobe, Magic and Bird. They probably "hate" each other, but it's like simbiotic and they achieve greatness by trying to outdo the competition and drives them to be better everyday. Of course bet cliff and Christopher are normally driven and ambitions persons anyway. But for example with the 3 it shows a great improvement in the UI Vs the 2. Of course the competition of helix influenced that. The same with kemper improving its effects because of the competition of fractal. And so on and so one. We are the ones that win.
 
I have had both starting with an Axe FX II and progressed through the XL to the III that I now have. I kept the Kemper for a while just because it was different and would sometimes be a means of inspiration since it was different. But, the Axe always, always, always, hands down came out the winner on effects quality. The Kemper was a pretty good simulation of an amp, but it did not surpass the Axe amps in my humble opinion. Once I got my Axe III I sold the Kemper and never looked back. The Axe III is far and away the best thing out there. I also own an EVH 5150 III and a 1965 Fender Bandmaster. The Axe hangs right with them. People who have never used an Axe FX before always tell me "but you need that tube sound and that air moving through a 4X12". Hey, I run my Axe through a Matrix and a 4X12 Mesa and dare anyone to tell me it does not feel dang good! Also, the Kemper kept falling down for me due to the fact that it had no Editor. You had to do everything on the front panel which was clunky at best. Kemper always said, we will have one, we will have one, but they have yet to produce. I kind of got the impression after a few years that Kemper were resting on their laurels by not progressing. Technology is always moving forward. There is always room for improvement. That my friends is where Fractal Audio always excels, constant forward progression!
 
I believe Fractal bit off a much bigger problem than the Kemper:
-modelling amplifiers
-modelling pedals
-speaker cab IRs
-developing state of the art effects
-creating an easy editing environment for adjustment and creation of presets
-figuring out routing options for performance
-well maintained forum...with extremely helpful members
-etc, etc

It seems uncanny to me that they have succeeded in every single dept. of this “guitar processing solution”.
It’s a helluva story...and if they stick to whatever strategy they are employing, it will only get better.
Kemper has a profiler. It’s great...its users say it is great...but where can the product go?
-better effects?
-lower price?
then what?

As the Fractal modelling behavior continues its upward trek, complete control over an amplifier in all “states” is “captured” so to say, with complete freedom to experiment and sculpt new guitar sounds. Slow but steady has won the race, at least IMHO :)
 
I don’t think it’s as close as some others.

The Kemper feel is great but absolutely no better than the AF3. The 3 is also better in every other way - stereo everything, wildly better, deeper IR support and choice, mature editor, patch community... etc.

For me it’s Marshall gain sounds first and foremost and the 3 is the best platform on earth, bar none of any kind including tube collection.

Exploding Plexi sounds without the ear damage, or the all the other gear to not get you kicked out of a club or your own house.

JCM 800 variants with easy dialing in.

Modern Marshall’s with the compression and grunt you expect....
 
My guitar hoarder friend has the KPA. I have the Axe-FX II Mark II and a Line 6 Helix. Using all a bit, here are my honest impressions using a Xitone M Britt to monitor all 3 using my friend's great playing and my woefully average playing.

KPA: Unit really shines with dry amp or amp+reverb tones. The M Britt and Top Jimi profiles are worth the price of admission. If you close your eyes and don't touch the settings, you'll think it's a real amp, especially if you like to do guitar volume tricks. If you have cherished amp with no touch settings, you can have that tone cloned in about 10 minutes. However once you start tweaking the knobs, it gets less convincing and more generically sounding like a good vst.

Axe-FX II - The factory presets were the Achilles heel, building your own or using experienced users presets yields amazing tones. Basic tones and advanced signal routing are both possible. Volume roll offs using Ares FW and tweaking are equally convincing. You could also make impossible amps if you are ambitious. Again, eyes closed it can feel and sounds like a real amp, not necessarily your example of the amp model, like trying out several different years of the same amp. The editor is great.

Helix Floor - If the other units didn't exist, it would be very kick ass. The unit UI, foot controller integration, and midi control are the easiest of the 3 to navigate. The models however good sounding they feel like they are more refined or have training wheels than the other 2 units. Signal routing can be more complex than KPA but less than Fractal. Using 3rd party IR files are a must with that unit IMHO to get it to sound more real.

Hope this helps.
 
dr bonkers said:
My guitar hoarder friend has the KPA. I have the Axe-FX II Mark II and a Line 6 Helix. Using all a bit, here are my honest impressions using a Xitone M Britt to monitor all 3 using my friend's great playing and my woefully average playing.

KPA: Unit really shines with dry amp or amp+reverb tones. The M Britt and Top Jimi profiles are worth the price of admission. If you close your eyes and don't touch the settings, you'll think it's a real amp, especially if you like to do guitar volume tricks. If you have cherished amp with no touch settings, you can have that tone cloned in about 10 minutes. However once you start tweaking the knobs, it gets less convincing and more generically sounding like a good vst.

Axe-FX II - The factory presets were the Achilles heel, building your own or using experienced users presets yields amazing tones. Basic tones and advanced signal routing are both possible. Volume roll offs using Ares FW and tweaking are equally convincing. You could also make impossible amps if you are ambitious. Again, eyes closed it can feel and sounds like a real amp, not necessarily your example of the amp model, like trying out several different years of the same amp. The editor is great.

Helix Floor - If the other units didn't exist, it would be very kick ass. The unit UI, foot controller integration, and midi control are the easiest of the 3 to navigate. The models however good sounding they are feel like they are more refined or have training wheels than the other 2 units. Signal routing can be more complex than KPA but less than Fractal. Using 3rd party IR files are a must with that unit IMHO to get it to sound more real.

Hope this helps.
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I was looking for your comparison on the axe fx iii. Good write up..
 
White Light of Death said:
I’m at the point where I’d take Mr Howell
(J.k)
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dr bonkers said:
My guitar hoarder friend has the KPA. I have the Axe-FX II Mark II and a Line 6 Helix. Using all a bit, here are my honest impressions using a Xitone M Britt to monitor all 3 using my friend's great playing and my woefully average playing.

KPA: Unit really shines with dry amp or amp+reverb tones. The M Britt and Top Jimi profiles are worth the price of admission. If you close your eyes and don't touch the settings, you'll think it's a real amp, especially if you like to do guitar volume tricks. If you have cherished amp with no touch settings, you can have that tone cloned in about 10 minutes. However once you start tweaking the knobs, it gets less convincing and more generically sounding like a good vst.

Axe-FX II - The factory presets were the Achilles heel, building your own or using experienced users presets yields amazing tones. Basic tones and advanced signal routing are both possible. Volume roll offs using Ares FW and tweaking are equally convincing. You could also make impossible amps if you are ambitious. Again, eyes closed it can feel and sounds like a real amp, not necessarily your example of the amp model, like trying out several different years of the same amp. The editor is great.

Helix Floor - If the other units didn't exist, it would be very kick ass. The unit UI, foot controller integration, and midi control are the easiest of the 3 to navigate. The models however good sounding they feel like they are more refined or have training wheels than the other 2 units. Signal routing can be more complex than KPA but less than Fractal. Using 3rd party IR files are a must with that unit IMHO to get it to sound more real.

Hope this helps.
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what are you doing in my Home Studio?!...seriously, your findings echo mine....curious , which DSP setting you use on the MBritt?
 
Freds55 said:
That was a good chuckle for me this morning lol
:eek::D
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Guys, Tina and Dawn (and Donna Douglas, since we’re on the subject) were both born in the 1930’s. They were in their 20’s when Tweed Deluxes were new. Sadly, time marches on. If you’re really hankering for an older woman, I’d suggest Scarlett Johansson, lol. On the other hand, Betty and Wilma are timeless.

Re: Kemper and Fractal. Kemper has been easier to use live, but that’s changed. And the Axe III is not only superlative, it’s getting better week after week. They’re on a tear. The new pedal is fantastic. The sounds are pretty near perfect. I’ve written this before: my KPA has been in its case for months.
 
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