Axe-Fx III Firmware Version 3.02 Public Beta #2

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It is an amp modeler. Everything about the amp, it's uniqueness, it's mojo, whatever you want to call it, is being modeled. A lot of these amps are unfamiliar to some of us. We've never had access to these amps in real life. I can understand that it's a nice thought to say to us that we should just use our ears, turn a few knobs, only some knobs, or no knobs and go with what sounds good. But since the amp is modeled with such authenticity, it's nice to be able to quickly use exactly what was on the amp when dialing in the tones, no more, no less. Since Cliff has spent so much time, blood, sweat and tears to make it so accurate, why not have the option to treat it accurately when dialing in the tone? And as much as I truly appreciate Yeks efforts in making the amp guide, I also appreciate not having to reference it every time I want to take the approach of dialing in tones with authentic controls. If authenticity wasn't the point of all this, then why bother with the modeling in the first place? Cliff could have just designed ideal amps and call it a day. And the fact that Cliff will be adding an easy way to switch between these two methods is fantastic. I don't know how else to explain this in a way to understand it.
i understand all of that part. thanks for the reply.

what i'm puzzled about is how we "don't have to deal with advanced parameters anymore" or similar "only now..." statements referencing how much easier it is in general to dial in because we "can't see those advanced things now." those haven't changed....?

ok i'm gonna stop. ::::)
 
It is an amp modeler. Everything about the amp, it's uniqueness, it's mojo, whatever you want to call it, is being modeled. A lot of these amps are unfamiliar to some of us. We've never had access to these amps in real life. I can understand that it's a nice thought to say to us that we should just use our ears, turn a few knobs, only some knobs, or no knobs and go with what sounds good. But since the amp is modeled with such authenticity, it's nice to be able to quickly use exactly what was on the amp when dialing in the tones, no more, no less. Since Cliff has spent so much time, blood, sweat and tears to make it so accurate, why not have the option to treat it accurately when dialing in the tone? And as much as I truly appreciate Yeks efforts in making the amp guide, I also appreciate not having to reference it every time I want to take the approach of dialing in tones with authentic controls. If authenticity wasn't the point of all this, then why bother with the modeling in the first place? Cliff could have just designed ideal amps and call it a day. And the fact that Cliff will be adding an easy way to switch between these two methods is fantastic. I don't know how else to explain this in a way to understand it.

I think there is a philosophy difference between users. Im in your camp of thought.
The design, including the unique controls, all make an instrument what it is, Like you say- no less no more.
Others come from a more brainiac angle, or rather a scientific angle and don't necessarily have any regards for the original design, More power to them and that's why there are 2 view options. Everyone can enjoy.

Notice that not only you have just the original controls but also THE NAMES changed when needed. Some stuff is called low cut, some "Tone". It wasn't the case when all amps had the same controls. That felt like just a pile of parameters without a "Character" for a lack of a better term.
This is a genius upgrade, and to me the most important i could think of.
 
@Fro well stated!

what i'm puzzled about is how we "don't have to deal with advanced parameters anymore" or similar "only now..." statements referencing how much easier it is in general to dial in because we "can't see those advanced things now." those haven't changed....?
Sometimes I "deal with advanced parameters" by trying to figure out which ones to ignore to stay true to the original amp. So yeah, if they're ignored for me, I don't have to deal with them anymore, and it becomes easier to dial in amps to its original range of tones.

@FractalAudio Awesome update, thank you!
 
I used to have my tech add to the tone stack, he’d mod them to have a PPIMV etc

When I was playing hardware, I always wanted more parameters and control. Now with software people want less... so weird

In reality I think the reason certain amps had a limited tone stack wasn’t because it made them sound better, gave them mojo etc, it’s because Leo Fender wanted to save a few bucks and figured people wouldn’t care.

What about amps that had 2 channels but a shared EQ ? We all thought that sucked and liked the amps with a tone stack for each channel, but those were usually more expensive amps I couldn’t afford.

To this day when I’m playing my actual Princeton I hate the limited EQ... authentic or not, it kind of sucks. I don’t want to spend the money to get it modded, but sure would like a different tone stack all together.

I’d don’t play it and think “what a treat having less to work with”, if anything it makes me like the Axe more.

Not saying anyone is wrong in their opinions, but it’s odd to me, having had a lot of the authentic amps and wanting to sell them for the very reason they don’t have what the Axe offers

I guess maybe after folks try it and see that an amp with no tone stack kind of sucks in many ways they will appreciate having the controls they do and think Cliff was right all along adding those parameters to any and all amps
 
So yeah, if they're ignored for me, I don't have to deal with them anymore, and it becomes easier to dial in amps to its original range of tones.
I have to clarify: the “Advanced parameters” haven’t changed at all, unless people are considering Presence, Depth, Mids and similar as “advanced.” None of the things like Negative Feedback or Sag have moved or changed. For example, on some amps, only Depth has been “ignored” as you put it.

Maybe that’s my question: do people consider Mids and Presence an advanced parameter?

Again this is just coming from the angle of understanding “it’s so much easier only now” and “all the advanced stuff is only now being hidden.”
 
I have to clarify: the “Advanced parameters” haven’t changed at all, unless people are considering Presence, Depth, Mids and similar as “advanced.” None of the things like Negative Feedback or Sag have moved or changed. On some amps, only Depth has been “ignored” as you put it.

Maybe that’s my question: do people consider Mids and Presence an advanced parameter?
Well per release notes, if those parameters are not part of the original amp, it now goes in the "Advanced" tab. So I think that's why people are referring to them as "advanced parameters."
 
Oh, was it just the wording "advanced parameter" for you? Well per release notes, if those parameters are not part of the original amp, it now goes in the "Advanced" tab. So I think that's why people are referring to them as "advanced parameters."
Maybe. I mean, they are pretty basic, and are considered “basic” for other amp types.

Can a parameter be considered “basic” for one amp and “advanced” for another?

Like, we’re talking about the Mids knob or Master Volume. Surely those aren’t “advanced” concepts in general, regardless of what tab they’re on.

Just talking this out, again no judgment or anything.
 
Oh and to clarify: I care about this a lot because I do a lot of customer support and just want to know how to best communicate with people.

I’m not sure if people realize how many emails/DMs I answer during a week, in addition to forum posts.
 
Maybe. I mean, they are pretty basic, and are considered “basic” for other amp types.

Can a parameter be considered “basic” for one amp and “advanced” for another?

Like, we’re talking about the Mids knob or Master Volume. Surely those aren’t “advanced” concepts in general, regardless of what tab they’re on.

Just talking this out, again no judgment or anything.
No, they're not advanced concepts. But they're in the advanced tabs now, therefore they are now categorically advanced parameters... no?

If you want people to call them something else, make a suggestion to FAS to rename that tab? Dunno.
 
I guess maybe after folks try it and see that an amp with no tone stack kind of sucks in many ways they will appreciate having the controls they do and think Cliff was right all along adding those parameters to any and all amps

I dont think Cliff "Added" controls, he just left all amps with the same set instead of subtracting the ones not in the originals...
 
No, they're not advanced concepts. But they're in the advanced tabs now, therefore they are now categorically advanced parameters... no?

If you want people to call them something else, make a suggestion to FAS to rename that tab? Dunno.
Actually, all the basic amp controls are in the advanced tab including treble & bass so is everything on the amp now an advanced parameter because it is on the advanced page?ORG_DSC07361.JPG
 
I have to clarify: the “Advanced parameters” haven’t changed at all, unless people are considering Presence, Depth, Mids and similar as “advanced.” None of the things like Negative Feedback or Sag have moved or changed. For example, on some amps, only Depth has been “ignored” as you put it.

Maybe that’s my question: do people consider Mids and Presence an advanced parameter?

Again this is just coming from the angle of understanding “it’s so much easier only now” and “all the advanced stuff is only now being hidden.”


We are dealing with folks who are musicians, not to single anyone out of course.

When NASA wanted to figure out how to put a man on the moon they didn’t go “let’s ask a bunch of musicians how to do it” lol

Now there are obviously some musicians who are incredibly intelligent individuals, and there are also some who are pretty dim. I’ve known guys who can play great but who’s life skills, tech skills et al are on par with a 5 year old, in other words they probably couldn’t survive on their own in adult society, but sure could play if you get them on the stage.

I’ve worked with guys who couldn’t use a graphic EQ because they had no idea what frequency meant or that 100hz is lower than 1000Hz, and no idea what frequency range certain instruments and tones fell into.

On the other extreme, we’ve got guys who can write 10,000 words on differences of diodes in an electronic circuit.

I think things like presence are pretty simple to understand but no doubt some folks have zero clue what it does.
 
what i'm puzzled about is how we "don't have to deal with advanced parameters anymore" or similar "only now..." statements referencing how much easier it is in general to dial in because we "can't see those advanced things now." those haven't changed....?

I do appreciate that you are trying to understand the thought process on this. Especially since you help a lot of us out with using the Fractal products. Here is one analogy that could be applied.

Did you know that fast food restaurants sell more burgers and fries just by having salads on the menu? Some people never purchase the salads, ever. By seeing the salad on the menu, they think about eating healthy for a moment, and feel like they have done so. Then they don’t feel guilty buying the burger or fries, and may even purchase more.

The point being, having something visible to a user can and will impact their decision making process. Even if its something they don’t touch or use. Add to that, there is a certain level of confusion you can have with high end gear like this. Sometimes organizing the controls a certain way will change the perception just enough to make the user experience a little more relaxed and appealing. It’s just as simple as that.

Maybe that’s my question: do people consider Mids and Presence an advanced parameter?

At least for me with this example, it's not so much that I would consider it "Advanced" but rather I just want to know if it was on the amp being modeled. I guess if that means they move to the advanced tab, then that works for me, for now. Maybe that will change when a switch or setting is added, not sure.

Authentic is an ideal place to start, for me. And as others have mentioned earlier, authentic amp design and controls may inherently be flawed or limited. If that's the case, and we can't get the sounds we like, flip a switch and move into a wider array of tweaking. I think some of the unwanted nastiness you can get with limited controls is fun to explore. And honestly, it prevents me from subconsciously dialing in every amp to sound exactly the same, which I sometimes do, lol.

So........


How them new drives sounding ?

Good point! I haven't tried them yet. So off I go...
 
WEll, ill give an example, Fryette is a special amp with a specific gain staging and tonal concept and that's what makes it what it is.
No extra controls would keep it consistent with the original thought Steve had in mind. Even now, with the new view, there is no Gain I and Gain II controls, so think how far off you might get tweaking all kinds of controls that go against the Philosophy of the original design.
This is the point, not if the parameters are called "Advanced" or "Trump Wall". Who cares what they are called.

Its about True to the Design or "Modding" Controls. I want to easily know if im staying true to a design or modding it, I think its pretty basic.
 
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WEll, ill give an example, Fryette is a special amp with a specific gain staging and tonal concept and that's what makes it what it is.
No extra controls would keep it consistent with the original thought Steve had in mind. Even now, with the new view there is no Gain I and Gain II, controls, so think how far off you might get tweaking all kinds of controls that go against the Philosophy of the original design.
This is the point, not if the parameters are called "Advanced" or "Trump Wall". Who cares what they are called.

Its about True to the Design or "Modding" Controls. I want to easily know if im staying true to a design or modding it, I think its pretty basic.
Can we please keep the politics out of the discussion.
 
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