Axe-Fx III Firmware Version 11.00 Public Beta

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Why remove the choice to update?

You can always turn resonance down to taste from wherever it's at...or adjust left/right to taste...they're just new curve presets...nothing is getting taken out...adjusting speaker resonance is like being able to get Celestion on the phone and design your own custom loudspeaker in real time...probably the singlemost influential element on amp tone after...the amp itself, 50/50. This new impedance preset accessibility just enacts a long standing wish for test monkeys to be able to pull up existing real world speaker cabinet characteristics without having to enroll in school again...
 
The more I think about this the more I think existing presets should get automatically updated to use an appropriate impedance model. Yes, existing presets will change but probably for the better.

Anyone disagree?
I don‘t. Those who want to keep the existing impedance model can‘t they backup their presets before the update and restore afterwards?
 
Resonance is the same for all signal levels. If you pluck a guitar string lightly, it rings out with the same resonance it has when you pick more strongly.

without negative feedback, the higher the MV the more the resonances will create EQ peaks at those points, increased distortion and output EQ at those points, to a lesser extent in an amp with negative feedback. The mathematical amount and points of resonance present might not change, but there is a EQ differential, a scoop, dependant on MV output level, that gets stronger up to the point of PA distortion. That's why rectifiers sound ungodly if you can actually turn them up, no negative feedback...power amp scoop/bloom from speaker impedance.
 
Firmware updates are changes. If you don’t want a change, then you have your best FW on the unit already.

I know pros still on like 5.x or whatever because it’s their current sound. Need a feature from later FW? Well gotta bite the bullet and adjust tones. It’s like buying a new different amp - gotta readjust.
The data exists in each user preset to describe the impedance curve(s) in the amp block(s). It may contain carefully tweaked data or original factory settings. These presets may need to sound the same for the sake of a repeat gig or recording session.

If done sensibly, the new curves would be data in the firmware, with a lookup ID stored in the preset to point at the chosen curve data. The data storage change would be trivial. Likely only a few bytes.

Adding an extra entry in a select box dropdown isn't that difficult either.

Finally, adding a button to trigger a loop to run through all presets and set up the appropriate cab is marginally more difficult than doing that automatcally, as the only real difference, effortwise, on the development side is adding the button somewhere in the global settings pages.


Seems to me allowing 'opt-in' is not much more work, and keeps about everyone happy.
 
Does this mean the cabinet sonance should be known for every IR used and set accordingly in the Amp Block for best results? I don’t know the resonance of the cabs captured in almost all the IRs I use.
Valhallir.at for example includes the speaker low resonance of their IR packs to the prescription on our website. So, if you want to use the exact resonance frequency (if you are using Valhallir.at cabs in the Axefx III stock cab section), you could take a look at our website.
 
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i haven't read the whole thread, so i apologise if someone has mentioned this before, but i think there should be another menu option (or one that replaces "null") and that should be called "v10". this will being up the old default impedance curve. this will allow users to keep their old presets unchanged if they want and also allow them to have a look at what the old curve was and pick a new curve that's closest. like some of the old features we had access to previously with the II, this option could be removed in a later firmware if the consensus is that it could go.
i think the new firmware should choose a new default, as cliff suggested, but if you don't want to change, then you could simply to a batch update with fractool to set all the presets to "v10"
 
i haven't read the whole thread, so i apologise if someone has mentioned this before, but i think there should be another menu option (or one that replaces "null") and that should be called "v10". this will being up the old default impedance curve. this will allow users to keep their old presets unchanged if they want and also allow them to have a look at what the old curve was and pick a new curve that's closest. like some of the old features we had access to previously with the II, this option could be removed in a later firmware if the consensus is that it could go.
i think the new firmware should choose a new default, as cliff suggested, but if you don't want to change, then you could simply to a batch update with fractool to set all the presets to "v10"
Rather than the default curve, the extra choice (NULL is worth keeping, IMHO, so your 'v10' extra choice is how it should be) should call up whatever is stored in the preset. Some folks might need continuity for the sake of a repeat gig or recording punch-ins later.

Generally speaking, 'opt-in' is friendlier than 'automatic' for user data that is not required to change for the firmware update to work. The batch should convert forward rather than back to ruffle the fewest feathers....
 
That's all it takes, for a few months. Like you used to be able too scroll through FW levels in AFX2, until nobody uses it anymore and it quietly drifts off into legacy...
Yes. A bit of lube instead of "brace yerself, I'm goin' in dry!" Is that too much to ask? I'm not even saying I need a kiss first.... :)
 
There's been 10 major firmware updates, all of which changes the sound. If we start having parameters or menu options to revert firmware update changes, it creates for a convoluted interface that you can only use if you know the history of the device and its firmware updates. The Axe-Fx has never been that way so far, and I don’t see why it has to be any different this time around.
 
Will driving the speaker cabinet from the headphone output really work for this? We are trying to measure resonance in the cab, I would guess that the acoustic energy from the headphone out will be insufficient to excite any resonance? Are these resonances even linear in nature, or do they depend in loudness? @FractalAudio, any thoughts on that?
I think he already answered here:
The impedance has a nonlinear component but it is very small relative to the linear component. IOW the amplitude of the wave is proportional to speaker displacement so the impedance curve is relatively constant vs. applied voltage. The nonlinear effects occur as the voice coil moves out of the magnetic gap and this is already modeled.

PS: I think you might be surprised by the volume a line or headphone output is able to generate if directly connected to a speaker.

For example: line outputs in the axe fx have a max level of +20dBu, that equals to 7.75 Vrms.
If we connect one output to a 4 ohm load we obtain a power of:
7.75*7.75 /4= 15W

Obviously remains to be seen if the outputs can support the current draw to really deliver 15W

PPS: and let's not forget that guitar speakers usually have a sensivity of 97-100 dB SPL at 1W/1m
 
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The AxeFXIII is still relatively new in its life cycle so there are going to be many more (I suspect) big FW changes that will alter your sound - for a good cause. I would not want to hold back the progress of its development by always asking for an option to select how FWxx used to do it.
I have a boat load of presets (and also AB Naked Amps) to maintain but to be honest if I think something used to sound better in an older FW (not often) then I make a decision to either stay on the older FW or try tweak the preset to get back to that sound - rather that than ask Cliff to make it an option.

With that approach, I don't really mind if the official FW11 force updates my presets or leaves them as is because I know how to handle them.
 
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I use three cabs for all of my presets and the old v10 curve is tweaked off the factory defaults for each cab. These cabs all are mixes of more than one existing cab and contain close miked and far field. Although I liked some timbre of the new impedance models, there's none that fits the bill right from the start. How could it, since my cabs don't exist in the real world.
If an auto update comes I guess I have to redo my settings for around 70 presets by hand, at least the low resonance settings, they are critical when gigging.
 
For me I have about 12 presets I use heavily with four scenes in each, so it's a bit of a drag but not that hard.

Although I have the AB stuff I haven't used it in ages to be honest.

My vote is progress, that's what we signed up for in buying a new product - as others have said, I've found that with the last 3 or so major FW updates I've had to revisit the sounds, sometimes that is a pain with timing - but the result is always significantly better than before, and I have the choice when I do it.

I would say that if you know if you know it's coming - so it's clearly flagged, auto update.

If your presets are that important to you, either don't update until you have the time or use Fractool or something to extract the settings and re-apply.

And backup before you update, therefore you can always rollback.

I want Cliff to focus on innovation, he's clearly pretty good at it ;) not backward compatability
 
I have loaded FW11b and its sonic and feel/response qualities are beyond belief. So far I have tested with RCF NX12-SMA, Atomic CLR and in-ear. My preferred way into the new impedance modelling is that existing presets should be kept unaltered (i.e. FW 10 or earlier).

After all we have tweaked our presets to sound excellent on our currently installed FW and by keeping them unaltered upon recall we can improve our presets one by one as time allows. I assume many of us have a limited number of favorite ("kitchen sink" type) Presets and by updating these we will have the improvements introduced in FW11b available for most of the gig/rehearsal.
 
You missed: for a specific revision of firmware.

Presets are firmware version specific. They contain the value of the firmware they were last saved with in them as metadata.

That's a given, but it doesn't change the basic nature of what presets are or why people use them.

There has never been a promise that presets will sound the same across anything but the exact same version of the firmware it was created. Ever in the history of Fractal.

I never implied that any such promise was ever made; however, in the past, presets generally changed as an unavoidable consequence, not an intentional choice.
 
You can always turn resonance down to taste from wherever it's at

That makes it sound like we're talking about a single parameter and we're not. The better question is, why should anyone have to re-tweak the Impedance Curve of existing presets if it's not necessary or essential?

This new impedance preset accessibility just enacts a long standing wish for test monkeys to be able to pull up existing real world speaker cabinet characteristics without having to enroll in school again...

I'm anything but opposed to the new Impedance Curves, and no one's suggesting that they be removed. All that's being proposed is that existing presets be allowed to continue using whatever Impedance Curve values were present when the preset was last saved.
 
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