• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Axe-Fx III Firmware Version 11.00 Public Beta

Status
Not open for further replies.

Variable

Inspired
Not sure if it's covered elsewhere in this thread, but how does the new impedance setting affect those of us using the Fryette PS2 (or other flat response tube amps). I'm guessing we should use the null cabinet since the real tube amp is doing all the stuff the new modeling would do?
 

marshall2553

Experienced
Not sure if it's covered elsewhere in this thread, but how does the new impedance setting affect those of us using the Fryette PS2 (or other flat response tube amps). I'm guessing we should use the null cabinet since the real tube amp is doing all the stuff the new modeling would do?
I think so. I’ve been playing around with running into the effects return of my amp and the null cabinet works well. Previously I was turning HF and LF resonance down to zero to accomplish the same thing.
 

creativespiral

Inspired
The more I think about this the more I think existing presets should get automatically updated to use an appropriate impedance model. Yes, existing presets will change but probably for the better.

Anyone disagree?
I'm in the "always agree" category here - When its a significant, objective improvement in modeling, go ahead and make all updates necessary to make it default / standard behavior for all new and existing blocks. There may always be some people who will complain, but there will be far more who will benefit with improved sound and less work tweaking (whether they know it or not). Also, firmware updates are always optional...
 

Jason Scott

Power User
Having gone through all the amp models with this change, what's your impression?
I created that Amp block presets list before version 11, and I haven't compared the impedance curves for all of the models; however, of the many I have compared, my opinion is mixed. To my ears, the default impedance curve for some firmware 11 models does sound better. Others, not so much. For instance, the default impedance curve for the firmware 10 "5153 100W Red" model is brighter and has more bite and cut than the default for firmware 11, which is darker and has a looser bottom end, to my ears anyway.
 
Last edited:

Jason Scott

Power User
The more I think about this the more I think existing presets should get automatically updated to use an appropriate impedance model. Yes, existing presets will change but probably for the better.

Anyone disagree?
Yes, me. I've compared the sound of old vs. new impedance curves for many presets and find that, for some presets, I definitely prefer the sound of the previous curve. Why remove the choice to update? If someone wants to update, more power to them, and I may update some of my presets voluntarily, but I'd at least like the option of maintaining sonic continuity. In my opinion, it should definitely be a choice.
 

Jason Scott

Power User
I'm in the "always agree" category here - When its a significant, objective improvement in modeling, go ahead and make all updates necessary to make it default / standard behavior for all new and existing blocks. There may always be some people who will complain, but there will be far more who will benefit with improved sound and less work tweaking (whether they know it or not). Also, firmware updates are always optional.
I understand that improvements in modeling algorithms can impart unavoidable changes to current presets. That's just the way it is. But to force a change unnecessarily is counter to the very nature of why people save a collection of blocks as a preset in the first place. I'm all for updated modeling algorithms, but that doesn't mean I want the sound of my presets I worked so tediously to design to change if they don't have to. If the change isn't obligatory, it should be a choice.
 
Last edited:

Jason Scott

Power User
This. Bite the bullet, and accept the -- gasp -- improvement.
The new curves may be more accurate; however, I've compared numerous default impedance curves for amp models from firmware 11 to firmware 10 and I certainly don't think they're all a given sonic improvement. Some of my presets sound better with the new curves, some don't. I'd at least like the option to decide which ones should change.
 
Last edited:

Piing

Power User
The more I think about this the more I think existing presets should get automatically updated to use an appropriate impedance model. Yes, existing presets will change but probably for the better.

Anyone disagree?
I agree.

But do not announce it openly. Otherwise some guys will start having psychological issues if they know about it, like hearing psychophony artifacts that were not there before. And they'll cry Gimme back my old firmware, gimme back my old firmware!
 

Jason Scott

Power User
I agree.

But do not announce it openly. Otherwise some guys will start having psychological issues if they know about it, like hearing psychophony artifacts that were not there before. And they'll cry Gimme back my old firmware, gimme back my old firmware!
Anyone who wants the old firmware can install it. There are valid reasons why someone would want the option of maintaining the sonic continuity of their presets.
 
Last edited:

randyvanmartini

Power User
I’m usually of the ‘onward and upward’ crowd, and no, I haven’t tried a bunch of existing presets like Jason has, but man, for whatever reason, my go-to preset just has ‘something’ that gets lost when I move from the old curve for the amps. Each amp and cab has its own signal path clear to the outputs where they are hard panned, and when I select any of the new curves, it affects the depth of the stereo effect. Weird I know, but that’s what I’m hearing.
 

is9582

Power User
The more I think about this the more I think existing presets should get automatically updated to use an appropriate impedance model. Yes, existing presets will change but probably for the better.

Anyone disagree?
I agree. We all know how to backup our AxeFX, and most know how to reload a previous firmware, so it'd seem that we could go back if for some reason the new sound wasn't palatable. YMMV
 

Jason Scott

Power User
I agree. We all know how to backup our AxeFX, and most know how to reload a previous firmware, so it'd seem that we could go back if for some reason the new sound wasn't palatable. YMMV
So, a user shouldn't be given the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while at the same time having the option of using the new impedance curves? Basically, you're suggesting that any user who wants to maintain the sonic continuity of their old presets should have to install firmware 10, which means they can't access any of the new impedance curves. Why would you not want to give users the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while also allowing access to the new impedance curves? If you want to update your presets, go for it, but why force someone to update who may not necessarily want to? Seriously.

Like I said, I think some of the default curves in firmware 11 sound better than some of the ones from v10, but of the presets that use curves from v10 that I prefer, I'd at least like the option of keeping them in presets I'm in the middle of using for various projects.
 
Last edited:

Melten

Inspired
So, a user shouldn't be given the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while at the same time having the option of using the new impedance curves? Basically, you're suggesting that any user who wants to maintain the sonic continuity of their old presets should have to install firmware 10, which means they can't access any of the new impedance curves. Why would you not want to give users the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while also allowing access to the new impedance curves? If you want to update your presets, go for it, but why force someone to update who doesn't want to unnecessarily? Seriously.
I think if there's a choice it should probably be the opposite way around - make the default to use the new curves but to have a choice to go back to the old one, in the case that a preset has been tweaked in such a way that worked with the old curve.
 

Jason Scott

Power User
iIt’s easy to just stay on the previous version if you don’t want the changes profess will prevail.
Yes, if you've already decided that all of the older curves sound better than the newer ones, but that's not what anyone's saying. Some of the new curves sound better to my ears, some don't. The option to update presets should be at the users discretion. Why anyone would disagree with that is anyone's guess. Anyone who wants to update their presets is obviously welcome to do so.
 

VegaBaby

Fractal Fanatic
it would be great if the Impedance Models could contain the type of speaker used in that cab where the measurements came from in its name. could be useful for matching with third party IRs unless the speaker itself isn't that important...
 

qjawz

Inspired
So, a user shouldn't be given the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while at the same time having the option of using the new impedance curves? Basically, you're suggesting that any user who wants to maintain the sonic continuity of their old presets should have to install firmware 10, which means they can't access any of the new impedance curves. Why would you not want to give users the option of maintaining the sound of their old presets while also allowing access to the new impedance curves? If you want to update your presets, go for it, but why force someone to update who may not necessarily want to? Seriously.

Like I said, I think some of the default curves in firmware 11 sound better than some of the ones from v10, but of the presets that use curves from v10 that I prefer, I'd at least like the option of having them in presets I'm in the middle of using for various projects.
Stay on the 11b then your sonic continuity of your old presets don’t change and you have the best of both worlds. I think it’s stable enough.

My 50+ presets are amazing after going to 11b and I unfortunately had to go through and change most of them. I gladly embrace the change.
 

Jason Scott

Power User
I think if there's a choice it should probably be the opposite way around - make the default to use the new curves but to have a choice to go back to the old one, in the case that a preset has been tweaked in such a way that worked with the old curve.
Ask yourself what presets are and why people use them? A preset is a configuration of settings that are saved in order to allow one to recall a specific sound. Telling people they should just accept having their presets updated automatically and unnecessarily and without any choice in the matter is counter to the very nature of why people use them in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom