Axe-Fx III Firmware Release Version 15.01

[guitarnerdswe]

Or option e) tell us the antidote so we can upgrade more easily.

For example: if you want your current presets to remain as is, we recommend the following adjustments after update.....

There is no secret recipe or one size fits all, when it comes to readjusting your settings after a major update. Either you don't update and live with what you got, or you update and take the time to audition your presets and readjust when necessary. There is no in between I'm afraid.

 

[jclemensfl]

The question is at what point do they do they split? We get 16 A and B, but now what happens for 17? 17 A gets even more amp updates. but what does 17 B get? Is it based on the amp updates of 16 for the people who installed 16A? Or the non-amp version of 16B? Because there will be people that want the 17 amps, the 16 amps, and the 15 amps now. And for version 18 there are now 4 cases. And what happens if there's a bug that only exists in 17 C? Or a bug that was added in 15 B that needs to be fixed in every firmware that's a child of it. Eventually cliff would be spending so much time flowcharting all the different versions of firmware with all the different amp versions that he'd never actually get any work done. Even if you decide that these amp-free versions only go back one version, then you're only delaying your problem by one week.

The reality is that it almost immediately becomes way to cumbersome to try and start managing all these different versions.

Your options are:
a) stay up to date and deal with tweaking presets
b) stay on a previous firmware and live without the other updates
c) Update less frequently, and just do your big re-dial every 6 months or so when you catch up on the last dozen changes
d) switch to a competing platform which only releases updates every 9 months and rarely causes changes to prior models so you no longer have to deal with this decision.

Life is all about trade-offs.

Your points are well-made and I acknowledge this is likely a pipe dream, and unworkable for Fractal staff.
But I think it is important that the company is at least aware that, for as many folks on this forum who have the time and the desire to constantly update their unit and can clearly hear the effect every update to firmware has on tone, there is also a large universe of owners out there that loves the sound, would like to continue to see some ease-of-use improvements, and just doesn't have the time to update 30 or 40 presets regularly.
Can they do anything about it? Likely not, and you won't hear me complain if that's the case.
But the folks at Fractal are way smarter about this than I am.

 

[Dino334]

This is probably an unpopular post with most Fractal users, but a legitimate point for gigging guitarists.
Obviously, Fractal will never (and shouldn't) stop innovating. But many updates DO force us to change our settings that we've spent hours shaping. It is time consuming for those of us who have other jobs. And the clever retort "just don't update" does not take into account the need guitarists have for other improvements in new firmware, or the effect some changes have on CPU.
I think I know the answer to this, but I wonder how much extra work it would be to separate usability improvements from amp improvements in FW updates? Like a 16.01a for everyone, and a 16.01b for folks who just want whatever the non-amp-related usability improvement of the week is (Virtual Capo, FC improvements, etc.)? Probably too much time and effort required, especially as Fractal continues to roll through updates at a fever pitch.
One can dream.

I’ve run into the same dilemma several times since owning Fractal products and the solution has always been pretty easy. If my current firmware sounds good or I’m in the middle of recording, I leave it. When I have time, I update to the latest and greatest, after making a backup of course. If it doesn’t sound good to me, I take the 10 minutes to reinstall the older firmware and backup. And guess what, the older firmware still sounds kick ass like it did before the newest firmware came out.
I’ve been on FW 12.14 since it was released, missing out on the new drive blocks and other enhancements, until last week or so when 15 was released. Don’t get me wrong, I auditioned 13 and 14, but they weren’t to my liking and I was recording, so I went back to 12. No biggie..still sounded amazing without the latest DS-1 and goodies.
think about it...do you think when Def Lep, Metallica, or DT are on tour or recording, and a new FW comes out, those artists or techs update immediately? Youd be surprised how many of them are on way older firmware. Why? Because it sounds kick ass the way it is!!! Just go by the old adage “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it“ mindset instead of “I really need the latest“ and you’ll be happier. Get the latest when you can afford the time.

 

[biggness]

This is probably an unpopular post with most Fractal users, but a legitimate point for gigging guitarists.
Obviously, Fractal will never (and shouldn't) stop innovating. But many updates DO force us to change our settings that we've spent hours shaping. It is time consuming for those of us who have other jobs. And the clever retort "just don't update" does not take into account the need guitarists have for other improvements in new firmware, or the effect some changes have on CPU.
I think I know the answer to this, but I wonder how much extra work it would be to separate usability improvements from amp improvements in FW updates? Like a 16.01a for everyone, and a 16.01b for folks who just want whatever the non-amp-related usability improvement of the week is (Virtual Capo, FC improvements, etc.)? Probably too much time and effort required, especially as Fractal continues to roll through updates at a fever pitch.
One can dream.

How nitpicky can one person be? Lol Even if you downgraded from fw15 to fw1, it's not going to push your presets into "unusable" territory. I'd wager you could tell the difference more between new strings and old strings than with firmware upgrades.

 

[jclemensfl]

I’ve run into the same dilemma several times since owning Fractal products and the solution has always been pretty easy. If my current firmware sounds good or I’m in the middle of recording, I leave it. When I have time, I update to the latest and greatest, after making a backup of course. If it doesn’t sound good to me, I take the 10 minutes to reinstall the older firmware and backup. And guess what, the older firmware still sounds kick ass like it did before the newest firmware came out.
I’ve been on FW 12.14 since it was released, missing out on the new drive blocks and other enhancements, until last week or so when 15 was released. Don’t get me wrong, I auditioned 13 and 14, but they weren’t to my liking and I was recording, so I went back to 12. No biggie..still sounded amazing without the latest DS-1 and goodies.
think about it...do you think when Def Lep, Metallica, or DT are on tour or recording, and a new FW comes out, those artists or techs update immediately? Youd be surprised how many of them are on way older firmware. Why? Because it sounds kick ass the way it is!!! Just go by the old adage “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it“ mindset instead of “I really need the latest“ and you’ll be happier. Get the latest when you can afford the time.

I apologize that I've done such a poor job of explaining my point.
Of course, the best "current" solution is to not update. Everyone understands that. I only update about two times a year, not because I don't want to, but because the constant amp improvements require me to re-dial in my presets. That's ok, I can live without the amp improvements. The AXE already sounds great.
But there are things that are more difficult to live without, such as the Virtual Capo improvements, tuner functionality improvements, etc.
Maybe those things aren't that important to Metallica, because they have guys that tune their guitars and hand them to them for each song. I, unfortunately, don't have that for every gig.
So my point is simply this: as unlikely as it is to happen, it would be super cool if we could find a way to access all of those cool functionality improvements without having to constant re-engineer our presets.
I get it. It's a long shot. Let me have my dreams, man.

 

[jclemensfl]

How nitpicky can one person be? Even if you downgraded from fw15 to fw1, it's not going to push your presets into "unusable" territory. I'd wager you could tell the difference more between new strings and old strings than with firmware upgrades.

LOL. I can understand your point, but I don't consider it to be nitpicky to want to enjoy an upgraded Virtual Capo without having to re-engineer all 40 presets.
Maybe needy. Or absurd. Or ludicrous. Or overly demanding.
But not nitpicky.
BTW, if you think I'm the only one who feels this way, you'd be incorrect.
EDIT: I might also add that I also strongly disagree that the tone hasn't changed significantly from FW1 to FW15. There are some Fractal engineers who would probably be insulted by that claim! BUT if it's true, then a usability improvement-only update wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[l4mpi]

Or option e) tell us the antidote so we can upgrade more easily.

For example: if you want your current presets to remain as is, we recommend the following adjustments after update.....

No offense but your posts show why you're a CFO and not a CTO Some modeling changes are not "fixable" by changing your amp settings because there's no knob you can turn to get the old algorithms back; there might be some parameters that can get you closer to the old version but with different tradeoffs. The impact of a change can also be heavily influenced by the complete signal chain from your guitar, drives, compressors etc up to the used IR(s) and thus the adjustments would be different for each preset. Even if you ignore all other influences and focus on just the amp block, there's 283 amp types which might react differently (or not at all) to the changes.

For straightforward changes Fractal sometimes already publishes such information. I remember a FW from a while back which fixed a specific amp model that had an incorrect default value in some advanced settings, and in that case it was documented how to get the old value back. For anything not as straightforward, Cliff often gives directions which parameters might need to be adjusted, as he did in this very thread. But giving you specific values for these parameters is simply impossible for most non-trivial updates.

 

[biggness]

LOL. I can understand your point, but I don't consider it to be nitpicky to want to enjoy an upgraded Virtual Capo without having to re-engineer all 40 presets.
Maybe needy. Or absurd. Or ludicrous. Or overly demanding.
But not nitpicky.
BTW, if you think I'm the only one who feels this way, you'd be incorrect.
EDIT: I might also add that I also strongly disagree that the tone hasn't changed significantly from FW1 to FW15. There are some Fractal engineers who would probably be insulted by that claim! BUT if it's true, then a usability improvement-only update wouldn't be a big deal.

I understand your concerns. I just happen to love tweaking though lol

I've been with Fractal since the original Standard, and have each iteration of the unit since. I've been hearing "indistinguishable from a real amp" for quite some time, but didn't arrive at the opinion for myself until about mid-life of the II. Which brings me to my point of if it is and has been truly amp like in tone and feel since at least the II, then wouldn't any III firmware be just as amp-like as any other, with only marginal improvements?

Sometimes I wonder if Cliff just bumps up an EQ slider here and there on a firmware to just fudge with us occasionally at this point lol

 

[Hellbat]

Put me in the change it up camp. I just plug in and play and tweak on the fly. Just like a real amp can change its sound based on environmental conditions. But I understand there are guys that have 300 song playlists that do a preset per song, where they've painstakingly recreated an artist signal chain using the same gear blah blah blah.

IMO it's good to reset and start fresh as I've notice ear fatigue has a way bigger effect on presets sounding different than a technical change in the modelling.

 

[yyz67]

reality is that it almost immediately becomes way to cumbersome to try and start managing all these different versions.

^ This.

It might be technically possible to have separate FW 'modules' that are decoupled as much as possible, e.g Framework, UI, Amp, and all other blocks.

However, the first main challenge would be if the amp module (including its UI) could be decoupled enough so that it could evolve on its own with no changes to the interface with other components/modules. Same with other modules like the underlying framework.

The second challenge would be how to 'link' the modules into one FW binary, e.g. for a given user who wants the new drives but an older amp release. If there are issues or bugs but different user's have different combinations of modules that could be a nightmare.

Finally if there was an overall redesign or refactoring that changed interfaces overall (say for speed or grid functiinality), that would have to be a new master branch and changes on top could only be obtained by using that branch. (Unless FAS ported some changes back to older versions but that would be a lot of work for an unknown set of users.)

This doesn't even cover complexities added to Axe-Edit which need to know the version of each component to enable proper UI etc.

All this is hypothetical and would require a lot of dev time to maintain as well a possible overall redesign which might cause other issues including added latency.

 

[RDH]

Gotta love Micromanagers!

 

[jlynnb1]

There are plenty, I'd say MOST guys that gig regularly that don't have the issues some experience. Chalk it up to whatever, maybe we don't have ears of a god, maybe y'all are OCD....but I can say that having played Fractal gear since the Ultra, I've never had an update just destroy my presets. The only time it's had any sort of significant negative impact is if I'VE gone in and tweaked deep settings, which I'd expect, since there is no way for @FractalAudio to anticipate whatever deep tweaking an individual is doing.

Years of playing 70 song sets in Nashville, I'd update right before a set and not think twice.

Weekends of playing 6 services at church with 12-15k in attendance and being streamed live globally, I'd never think twice about updating.

Just never heard or experienced an update making presets unusable.

 

[trancegodz]

Current 15.01 firmware is working and sounding great for me. I had some old presets that I'd created in several different firmware versions going all the way back to firmware 12 that all still sound good with the new firmware.

Usually whatever the current firmware is, it is the best to date. If there are any issues at all, someone quickly finds them and brings them to Cliff's attention and they are fixed at lightning speed. No problems at all to me.

Over the years Cliff has implemented many customer wishes, and a few of my own "wishes" that I am very thankful for.
As far as I am concerned Cliff and Fractal are great!

15.01 is a great Christmas gift! Thanks Cliff!

 

[Dino334]

I apologize that I've done such a poor job of explaining my point.
Of course, the best "current" solution is to not update. Everyone understands that. I only update about two times a year, not because I don't want to, but because the constant amp improvements require me to re-dial in my presets. That's ok, I can live without the amp improvements. The AXE already sounds great.
But there are things that are more difficult to live without, such as the Virtual Capo improvements, tuner functionality improvements, etc.
Maybe those things aren't that important to Metallica, because they have guys that tune their guitars and hand them to them for each song. I, unfortunately, don't have that for every gig.
So my point is simply this: as unlikely as it is to happen, it would be super cool if we could find a way to access all of those cool functionality improvements without having to constant re-engineer our presets.
I get it. It's a long shot. Let me have my dreams, man.

Good points...there are gems in firmware updates like the virtual capo and no lapse channel switching that do make the urge to update almost impossible to resist.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I fervently disagree with the idea of slowing the pace of updates that affect tone; I put different update tracks in that category too.

I love the fact that there are audible upgrades to tone in this equipment. I really live for tone; it was very difficult for me to afford this thing, but my obsession with tone is why I bought the AxeFX. The fact that amp models audibly improve due to FAS's dedication to excellence makes it completely worth it, and to me, each update is just an opportunity for better and better presets, not a stumbling block to productivity.

I read this forum for some time before taking a deep breath and ordering, and it was reading people's reactions to the updates, and the descriptions of models that were indistinguishable from the real thing, that sold me. I've had my unit just a short amount of time, and already I've updated it several times, but it's always a joy, and always something for which I'm grateful. If you're on the road, you know the unit, and you know what bugs, if any, you've encountered with the way you use it and how to avoid them, because you're rehearsing for gigs. You can backup quickly and compare new firmware if you have the time, but if you don't have the time, you'll have improved gear waiting for you when you're ready. There are also engineers who use this, and pros who use it, who are looking for the absolute most realistic gear, and they can update as frequently as they like to get ever closer to their ideals of sound and performance.

This is the only piece of gear of which I'm aware that updates so frequently, and that puts it in the highest echelon, to me. In the relatively short amount of time I've had the unit, I've already updated my presets with firmware updates several times, and to me, it's an adventure and a joy. My sense of musicianship is not incumbered at all by the AxeFX precisely because of the number (and pace) of improvements it has over every other piece of gear, and I often find myself completely forgetting about the gear entirely and just losing myself in what I'm playing. I've never had any other equipment that did that for me, because models just didn't feel right, or the behavior or sound was off in one way or another. I welcome the updates as fast as they come, and I thank Cliff and the FAS engineers for their approach and design philosophy.

 

[App12]

I realize it is an extravagance but I use my Kemper to profile my amp / cab setups that I really like in each FAS firmware. This way if the sound changes dramatically I don’t worry about it. It about the only real plus to having a Kemper.

 

[CipherHost]

Not a big deal. Not a complaint. Just wondering if anyone noticed the same thing.

In the past when I would power down the AF3, the CLRs never really made much of a peep. Now, on 15.1, they thud.

I have the AF3 and CLRs plugged into the same power strip and I leave the CLR's power switches on. I would typically power down the AF3, then turn the power strip off.

 

[unix-guy]

Hopefully people understand why Cliff said this:

I think it's a joke.

In response to a question on this post:

Generally speaking, I detest amp updates as it forces me to adjust all my presets. While I had do some significant changes this time as well, I have to admit I now have the best overall sound and feel I’ve ever had in forty years of playing. Now stop screwing with the amps!

edited to add:

Since someone asked on Facebook, here was my reply:


To get back to where you started, I found this gets you there:

Dyn Pres add 2.0

Dyn depth reduce by 1.5, if starting on zero, reduce bass by 0.4

Cathode comp add 3%

Cath harmonics add 0.1

Cath hardness add 0.3

Add 0.6 to sag

Drop bass by 0.3

Add 1.0 to high treble

In output EQ:

63kz -1.0
125kz -1.5
250kz -0.5
4000k +1.0
8000k +1.0


Power amp hardness add 0.5

Negative feedback add 2.0

These settings are quite specific and touch a number of advanced parameters that many (most?) never touch.

No disrespect to @luke, but there's no way this would be generally applicable and there's no context as to what Amp models he's using or styles he's playing.

The bottom line is that you have 2 choices: update (and possibly need to adjust settings for Amp or other blocks) or don't update (and miss out on bug fixes and new features/improvements). Only you can decide which works for you at any given time.

 

[yyz67]

I use my Kemper to profile my amp / cab setups that I really like in each FAS firmware. This way if the sound changes dramatically I don’t worry about it.

Also any AF3 user can tone match tones/presets from previous FW versions as desired. Potentially a lot if work but might satisfy the more OCD among us. Of course it wouldn't affect changes in dynamics or gain structure.

 

[blaggers]

Not a big deal. Not a complaint. Just wondering if anyone noticed the same thing.

In the past when I would power down the AF3, the CLRs never really made much of a peep. Now, on 15.1, they thud.

I have the AF3 and CLRs plugged into the same power strip and I leave the CLR's power switches on. I would typically power down the AF3, then turn the power strip off.

Yes I’ve noticed mine now makes a DUUUurrrrrrrrrr sound through my CLR when I power the AxeFX off.