I would think that’s true to some extent, but I’m not sure how to discern how much more exaggerated the dissonance would be between no gain and some gain. Perhaps if you could eliminate ghost notes on the gained up sample it would be easier to compare the two?Good question, but I think one can always compare the clarity of dissonant chords or less than perfect intonation first with a clean tone, then switch to a high gain sound to see whether it’s a physical instrument thing or the overdrive circuit. Right?
Ghost notes aren't the same thing as intermodulation. Ghost notes are caused by power supply ripple. Normal intermodulation is caused by sending two or more frequencies through a nonlinearity, i.e. playing two or more strings.I would think that’s true to some extent, but I’m not sure how to discern how much more exaggerated the dissonance would be between no gain and some gain. Perhaps if you could eliminate ghost notes on the gained up sample it would be easier to compare the two?
Spock had 3 ears.
A left ear, a right ear and a final, front ear.
Man I love this forum. So much good info.Ghost notes aren't the same thing as intermodulation. Ghost notes are caused by power supply ripple. Normal intermodulation is caused by sending two or more frequencies through a nonlinearity, i.e. playing two or more strings.
Intermodulation causes a sum and difference of the input frequencies. If you put 100 and 150 Hz into a nonlinearity you get those two frequencies out plus 50 and 250.
My idea of the alternate string pickup solves this to some degree because typical voicings would have simple intervals on each pickup. For example a 5th chord (root, 5th, octave) would have the root and octave on one pickup and the 5th on the other. The root and octave intermodulation is all harmonically related, i.e. 100 and 200 gives 100, 200 and 300. The 300 is almost a perfect 12th (octave above a perfect 5th) and there's no subharmonic. The 5th is on it's own pickup so it doesn't contribute any intermodulation.
With a single pickup playing 100, 150, 200 (root, 5, octave) yields 50, 100, 200, 250, 300, 350. Lot more "clutter". And a 5th chord is the least cluttered chord (that's why it's so common in overdriven guitar sounds).
I guess he walked backwards, then?Spock had 3 ears.
A left ear, a right ear and a final, front ear.
Not more sterile than it sounds on an acoustic or clean electric guitarBut if you were able to remove those overtones, and just get the fundamental, wouldn’t you end up with a pretty sterile sounding chord?
It allows for more complex voicings without losing clarity.Man I love this forum. So much good info.
In your example, that interval, a perfect 5th, has the least amount of natural dissonance (you could throw in perfect 4th as well since it’s just the inversion of a 5th). But if you were able to remove those overtones, and just get the fundamental, wouldn’t you end up with a pretty sterile sounding chord?
I like those overtones and dissonances created by gain, and intervals. That’s one of the reasons I keep delay and reverb in front of the amp... creates more opportunity for those things to happen.
I actually don’t think you can remove those overtones. For example you can have two different instruments playing different, single note, parts and they will still create overtones (think two violins, string quartets). The temperament of the guitar, and application of overdrive and distortion exaggerate those overtones, but I believe they are always there.Not more sterile than it sounds on an acoustic or clean electric guitar
Makes sense!It allows for more complex voicings without losing clarity.
One studio trick is to track guitars and only play single notes or diads and build the chords that way. It's time consuming but when using lots of distortion the end product has more clarity.
Not those created by distortion, no matter if it's harmonic or intermodulation, don't confuse them for the natural harmonics each instrument has.I actually don’t think you can remove those overtones. For example you can have two different instruments playing different, single note, parts and they will still create overtones (think two violins, string quartets). The temperament of the guitar, and application of overdrive and distortion exaggerate those overtones, but I believe they are always there.
I think we're saying basically the same thing aren't we? The problem is, I don't think a stringed instrument can create a perfect sine wave, as there are multiple nodes along the string, being plucked, bowed or otherwise excited. In your example, using a pure sine wave, I completely agree.Not those created by distortion, no matter if it's harmonic or intermodulation, don't confuse them for the natural harmonics each instrument has.
A sine wave doesn't have harmonics by definition, it's just a single frequency, but as soon as you distort it you'll add harmonics (frequencies that are only higher than the fundamental and harmonically related, aka multiples)
By summing two sine waves you obtain just two frequencies, as soon as you apply distortion you get both harmonic distortion and intermodulation (frequencies that are both lower and higher than the two fundamentals and not multiples)
Blisterware?I think I’ll call this firmware Blister. Because that’s what it has done to my fingers.
fellow Axe-Fx user Phil Collen could probably tell a few stories about single string recorded chords...One studio trick is to track guitars and only play single notes or diads and build the chords that way. It's time consuming but when using lots of distortion the end product has more clarity.
Ghost notes aren't the same thing as intermodulation. Ghost notes are caused by power supply ripple. Normal intermodulation is caused by sending two or more frequencies through a nonlinearity, i.e. playing two or more strings.
Intermodulation causes a sum and difference of the input frequencies. If you put 100 and 150 Hz into a nonlinearity you get those two frequencies out plus 50 and 250.
My idea of the alternate string pickup solves this to some degree because typical voicings would have simple intervals on each pickup. For example a 5th chord (root, 5th, octave) would have the root and octave on one pickup and the 5th on the other. The root and octave intermodulation is all harmonically related, i.e. 100 and 200 gives 100, 200 and 300. The 300 is almost a perfect 12th (octave above a perfect 5th) and there's no subharmonic. The 5th is on it's own pickup so it doesn't contribute any intermodulation.
With a single pickup playing 100, 150, 200 (root, 5, octave) yields 50, 100, 200, 250, 300, 350. Lot more "clutter". And a 5th chord is the least cluttered chord (that's why it's so common in overdriven guitar sounds).
I’ve never had a fractal product until now, andI could be on a different planet here, but wasn’t there something in a prior Axe that fixed tuning and intonation issues in real time? Kind of a ‘sweetener’ that made dissonant chord inversions a little sweeter?Is it in the realm of possibilities for you to write and code an algorithm to round up or down the "offenders" to be more pleasing? Akin to Antares Autotune?
Edit: I'm thinking like a feature for the Input block. Splits the signal. These frequencies go this way to one amp block, those frequencies go that way to a different amp block, sum them into one cab.
Is that for high gain tones or anything?Generally speaking, I detest amp updates as it forces me to adjust all my presets. While I had do some significant changes this time as well, I have to admit I now have the best overall sound and feel I’ve ever had in forty years of playing. Now stop screwing with the amps!
edited to add:
Since someone asked on Facebook, here was my reply:
To get back to where you started, I found this gets you there:
Dyn Pres add 2.0
Dyn depth reduce by 1.5, if starting on zero, reduce bass by 0.4
Cathode comp add 3%
Cath harmonics add 0.1
Cath hardness add 0.3
Add 0.6 to sag
Drop bass by 0.3
Add 1.0 to high treble
In output EQ:
63kz -1.0
125kz -1.5
250kz -0.5
4000k +1.0
8000k +1.0
Power amp hardness add 0.5
Negative feedback add 2.0