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Axe-Fx III: Changing Scenes, stomp pedal, or anyhing you want with FCB1010 (No UnO chip)

Discussion in 'Other MIDI Controllers' started by Piing, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. #1 Piing, Aug 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    Piing

    Piing
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    I have an old FCB1010 that I haven't been using for years (I was using my $50 Arduino DIY controller installed on a binder, but now I need something solid until I mount my controller in a metallic box).

    My priority is to use scenes and only a couple of presets per gig, so I have programmed it like this:

    - Switches 1-8 >Scenes 1-8
    - Switch 9 > Preset Decrement
    - Switch 10 > Preset Increment

    Following chapter 2.4.4 (page 9) of the Behringer FCB1010 User Manual

    Example of Scene Select 1 at Switch n.1:
    • Press Switch-1
    • Press DOWN for more than 2.5 seconds (Switch1/2 LED will flash)
    • Press UP/ENTER two times (Select LED ON)
    • If Switch-1 led is ON, press Switch-1 until the LED is OFF (to deactivate Program Change function)
    • Press Switch-6 (CNT-1) for few seconds (Switch- 6 LED ON)
    • Briefly press Switch-6 (Switch- 6 LED will flash)
    • Press UP/ENTER (Value-1 LED ON)
    • Enter number 34 (CC34) either with the expression pedal 1 or with the switches.
    • Press UP/ENTER
    • Select the desired value for CC34 (0 to select Scene 1, 1 to select Scene 2...)
    • Press UP/ENTER
    • Exit programming mode pressing DOWN few second
    • At the Axe-FX III, under MIDI>Other>PRESET/SCENE set Scene Select to 34
    Preset Increment/Decrement for Switches n.9 and 10:
    • At the Axe-FX III, under MIDI>Other>PRESET/SCENE set Preset Increment to 1 (it will use CC01)
    • At the Axe-FX III, under MIDI>Other>PRESET/SCENE set Preset Decrement to 2 (it will use CC02)
    • At the Axe-FX III, under MIDI>Other>PRESET/SCENE set Preset Inc/Dec Start and End to the desired limits that you want to use
    • Follow the steps above for Switches 9 and 10 but using CC01 and CC02 instead of CC34.
    • The CC value must be zero (if you set it to 1, the presets will be incremented in steps of 2)
    That's all.

    And, given the flexibility of the Axe-FX III to assign CC's to bypass any block or to control the looper, the FCB1010 can be used for controlling anything without the need of a custom EPROM.

    Maybe I will use Switch-9 to sequentially roll through the presets and Switch-10 for Tempo Tapping or other function.
     
  2. #2 finny47, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
    finny47

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    Thanks for the write up. I had an audition for a new band this week. Without the FC, it would have looked weak to be grabbing knobs on the FXIII panel to adjust scenes or preset.

    I'm an midiot, so the instructions on the pedal pressing threw me off at first. Hopefully my comments will help. -

    Each switch has to be programmed. Repeat these steps for pedal 1-8
    • Press Switch-1 ( to program Scene 1 change)
    • Press DOWN for more than 2.5 seconds (Switch1/2 LED will flash)
    • Press UP/ENTER two times (Select LED ON) **Select LED will light on first press, but press a second time
    • If Switch-1 led is ON, press Switch-1 until the LED is OFF. ** regardless of which switch is programmed, 1 will be on in this step
    • Press Switch-6 (CNT-1) for few seconds (Switch- 6 LED ON). ** Don't hold too long or it does some reset function. I had to start over
    • Briefly press Switch-6 (Switch- 6 LED will flash)
    • Press UP/ENTER (Value-1 LED ON)
    • Enter number 34 (CC34) **press pedal 3, then 4. trying to adjust with pedal sucks.
    • Press UP/ENTER
    • Select the desired value for CC34 (0 to program Scene 1, value of 1 for Scene 2...)
    • Press UP/ENTER
    • Exit programming mode pressing DOWN few seconds
    • Repeat until 1-8 are programmed.
     
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  3. reclavea

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    Is it possible to program non-latching stomp per preset? Or would the Uno-Chip be required?
     
  4. mrphlurph

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    Thanks to a forum mate, Jason, he provided the following info and made 2 videos. I have used the FCB with Axe III for a few gigs and it works great. No EPROM chip. It works great. I have 5 scenes (1-5), 6 prog down, 7 prog up, 8 is drive on/off, 9 chorus on/off and 0 for tuner. Pedals are fully configurable too. Very happy with it.

    Here is what he shared:
    Okay, so, first of all; you cannot re-assign the Bank Up/Down pedals.

    I prefer to ALWAYS have access to tap tempo and the tuner, so I have pedal 10 (or 0) set up as my tuner toggle and pedal 5 set up as my tap tempo. Then I have pedals 6 and 7 as presets (since I only use two presets and otherwise use scenes within them). Pedals 8 and 9 are individual effect toggles (in my case, reverb and delay). I have a whole bank dedicated to individual effects as well that I can switch to any time I'm in any preset and wish to turn on/off Overdrive 3, or Chorus 1, for instance. Finally, pedals 1-4 are my scenes. Pedal 1 switches between Scene 1 and Scene 5, Pedal 2 switches between Scene 2 and Scene 6, and so on. I have it so that the preset is saved in Scene 1 (you can save the preset defaulted to any scene; just go to that scene and save the preset).

    Essentially, since you can't do exactly what you want (at least with default firmware; no idea if the other chips allow it) what I recommend doing (similar to what you want) would be to have Pedals 5 and 10 be your preset up and down. Then you can still have pedals 1-4 as scenes and 6-9 as your individual effects. I would not like this as I would not have access to the tuner and tap tempo, but you are free, of course to do as you please.

    Actually.... You just made me realize that I could set it so that when my volume pedal is all the way down (or, toe up), it could engage the tuner... That could save me a pedal!!! Awesome! I'm gonna mess with that tonight or tomorrow :)

    Anyway, the first steps are to assign the MIDI channels for preset up/down: Setup > MIDI/Remote > Other > Preset Increment/Decrement.

    Keep track of all your MIDI assignments, too. I've attached a sample spreadsheet to do just that. This is what I use. So, if I ever want to know what MIDI channel my tap tempo is on, I can just look: Channel 2. So now if I want to program pedal 5 to tap tempo, I tap pedal 5 and hold "down" to go into edit mode and tap up once:
    1) make sure pedal 6 is lighted up (and pedal 7 is not lighted up 8 and 9 either way are fine; I always leave them on)
    2) tap it so it's blinking
    3) Tap "up" (to confirm)
    4) Hit 2 (setting the channel according to our chart)
    5) Tap "up" (to confirm)
    6) Tap 127 (value; really, I think any value over 64 will work for this)
    7) Tap up to confirm
    9) Exit edit mode

    Setting Scenes:
    Okay, as you can see, scenes are set to ch. 34 on my Axe Fx for me. So; to set Pedal 1 to Scene 1:
    1) Tap pedal 1 and go into edit mode (hold down, then tap up)
    2) Make sure pedal 6 is lighted up (not 7 - YET; and again, it doesn't matter about 8 or 9 unless you want to turn on/off the exp pedals)
    3) Tap 6 so it's blinking
    4) Confirm by tapping up
    5) Set it to 34 (Scene change channel)
    6) Tap up to confirm
    7) Tap 0 (Scenes 1-8 are values 0-7 - confusing, I know, but that's MIDI)
    8) Tap up to confirm
    9) Exit edit mode

    *NOTE: if you want to have pedal 1 toggle between scene 1 and 5 like I have, then merely repeat the above steps in edit mode with pedal 7: set it to Ch. 34 and value 4 (for scene 5).

    Some final notes: You have to understand the FCB 1010 - you can send up to 5 program changes (pedals 1-5) and up to 2 CC changes (Pedals 6 & 7). We only use CCs for things like scenes and effects; program changes are for changing presets. So, if you go to edit a pedal in any given bank, make sure only the functions you're intending to use are lit up. That is, if you JUST need a CC to change scenes, then pedals 1-5 should be dark. Again, pedals 8 & 9 can stay on indefinitely unless you have a patch where you want the expression pedals off. There's an option in the Axe to "Ignore redundant CC" or something to that effect. What this basically does is allows one pedal to turn on/and off an effect, or toggle the tuner.

    Example:
    Channel 10 is my tuner. I can toggle it on and off with one switch. I tap pedal 10 and go into edit mode. I set one CC (pedal 6) channel 10 (tuner; see my chart) and to value 127. Then I set the other CC (pedal 7) to ch. 10 and value 00. So after this is set up and saved, when I tap Pedal 10, it turns ON the tuner (and mutes the signal). When I tap it again, it IGNORES the CC sending the 127 message (since that's REDUNDANT) and only listens to the CC sending the 00 message, thus turning the tuner off (and restoring the signal).

    I know I didn't cover quite everything you asked. But hopefully this gets you started. Get your scenes set up and your preset up/dwn (INC/DEC) set up and let me know what else I can help you with. Use my chart and practice. Remember: First set the the CC channel in the Axe FX for the effect you wish to control. Then on the FCB1010, set the CC channel, then set the value: 00 for off, 127 for on. Set one of each to toggle an effect on and off.

    Hope this helps!
     
  5. sunshinewelly

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    I assume this set up does not apply to the axe 2
     
  6. Piing

    Piing
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    I think you can,but I don't have the Axe-FX II to try it.
    The FCB1010 switches can be programmed to send two CC. First send CC 34 for Scene Change Mode, and then CC 0-7 to select Scenes 1-8
     
  7. unix-guy

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    That doesn't sound right... You send CC 34 with value 0-7, not another CC.
     
  8. Piing

    Piing
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    that :)
     
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  9. sunshinewelly

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    so back to my question does the video posted work on the axe 2:)
     
  10. decreebass

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    I replied to your PM, but I'll reply here as well for posterity:

    It should; the default scene CC (#34) was carried over from the Axe Fx II. I can't guarantee it, though, since I don't have a II, but in any case, the programming of the FCB shouldn't be any different - just different (non-reassignable) CCs.

    http://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/axe-fx-2/Axe-Fx-II-Owners-Manual.pdf

    p.194 in the manual has all the MIDI implementation CC list. Just be sure you're only sending the MIDI messages you wish to send (i.e., make sure there aren't extra lights turned on when you're in edit mode on the FCB).
     
  11. unix-guy

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    The Axe Fx II CCs are completely reassignable... They are just pre-set, unlike on the III
     
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  12. jproxu

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    For those of us that get easily confused with midi programming, would it be to our advantage to purchase a chip like this? https://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom/fa Below is a small reference to the Axe-Fx lll at the bottom of this page.

    Does the EurekaPROM work with Axe-FX III?

    Yes, for one-cable mode (meaning there is no effect-state feedback), but there is some extra work to set it up. Once again, Axe-expert trancegodz explains:

    • Right now the Axe FXIII does not come with any of the MIDI CC# numbers assigned. So all anyone who buys an Axe FXIII needs to do is to set up the MIDI CC# numbers like they were in the Axe FXII and it will work with the EurekaProm.
    • Also, under the "MIDI/Remote Menu", turn "Program Change" to "On".
    • The Axe FXIII has a few less looper functions available, specifically Half, Dub, & Metronome.

    Help!
     
  13. decreebass

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    Your best bet is to learn MIDI. Even with the "upgrade" chip you still have to dig into the MIDI menu in the Axe and assign functions to MIDI CCs, PCs, and whatnot. You have to do that either way so the only trouble you're really saving is having to program the FCB1010. It's really not that hard and it's quite satisfying when you discover something new that you can do with it or come up with a clever arrangement of pedals and functions that makes the Axe do exactly what you need/want it to do.

    This is the main reason I advocate against using these so-called "upgrade" chips. First of all, the Axe sends no realtime feedback to the FCB1010 so the toggle states of the various effect pedals does not mean it corresponds with the Axe (though, if you set it up right AND DON'T CHANGE IT, then that is one of the benefits of these chips). Secondly, the "upgrade" chips eschew the inherent flexibility of the FCB1010 in favor of so-called "ease of use" - so called because, I feel, it cripples you from being able to use, say, two pedals for presets, 4 for scenes, add a tap tempo, tuner, etc., then jump down a bank and have several presets and scenes, individual effects, and looper controls, etc.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I just fell in love with the FCB1010 once I got over the initial learning curve - made even more difficult since I was learning the FCB1010 and MIDI at the same time, since I'd never used MIDI before. But I can't express how worth it the journey was. I love my Axe III even more since I can control it precisely how I like with the stock FCB1010.
     
  14. #14 Piing, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
    Piing

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    The required knowledge of MIDI Programming for setting a pedalboard with the Axe-FX is not rocket science. Learning to use the parameters of the multi-band compressor, the pitch-shifter or the AMP block advanced parameters is far more complex than learning the required MIDI knowledge to control the AXE-FX.

    There are only 2 things to learn:

    1) MIDI uses channels, from 1 to 16. Pedalboard and Axe-FX must share the same channel (default for both is 1, so no worry about that)

    2) CC (Continuous Controller) is a MIDI message used to set the data of a parameter. It contains a Controller Number and the data. The Controller Number must be the same at both the pedalboard and the Axe-FX.

    http://electronicmusic.wikia.com/wiki/Continuous_controller

    That's all the required knowledge. It doesn't matter if we use chips or not use chips, or if we program from the pedalboard or from a fancy dedicated software.
     
  15. unix-guy

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    You forgot PCs...
     
  16. #16 decreebass, Nov 18, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    decreebass

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    Also a CC is a control change, not a continuous controller. First you set the CC (0-127) and then set a value (0-127). This tells the Axe what function you want to control (say, turning an Drive block on and off). You set the CC on the FCB1010 the same as you set the Drive block CC on the Axe, then set the value to either 0-63 for "off" and 64-127 for on (or, 0 for off and 127 for on).

    1) In the Axe III, set the CC to turn the Drive block on/off (bypass toggle) to CC#01.
    2) Assign one of the CCs (pedals 5 or 6) in the FCB1010 to CC#01, Value 127 [Note: if in "toggle" mode, you only need one CC message; not two separate ones for on and off].
    3) ???
    4) Profit!

    It's that easy for most of the functions: Set a CC and set a value.

    To choose a preset, just use a CC to select the bank and then set a PC 1-128 for the preset.

    To set up the expression pedals, assign them to the CCs you set up in the Axe for volume and wah, for instance, and then there are TWO values you choose: the first value is the minimum value (toe up) and the second is the maximum value (toe down).

    Again, it can be a little overwhelming to learn MIDI and the FCB1010 at the same time, but it's not insurmountable and well-worth it in the end. I was so intimidated at first that I put off buying the FCB for a few weeks after I got the Axe III; the guy at teh music store said it was super hard to use and didn't recommend it. Well, I did my own research and am glad I didn't heed his advice after all.
     
  17. AaronJ16

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    Hugely helpful post! I'm about 90% up and running with a new FCB1010 and the Axe FX III. One question though, I'm hoping someone knows the answer to - is there a way to get the FCB to turn the pedal indicator light on and off when toggling? In other words, when it sends the "on" message for, say, a drive pedal (e.g., 127) ideally the light would turn red, and when I hit again to send the "off" message (e.g., 0) the light should turn off. Currently, the light stays lit without reference to the last message sent.

    Has anyone found a way to deal with that issue? As I understand, the FX III can't send a status message to the FCB to tell it whether a given block is on or off so its somewhat confusing to operate when all of the pedal lights are constantly lit.

    Thanks!



     
  18. decreebass

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    This is where the "upgrade" come into play. Read up on the UnO and EUREKAProm chips. They have the capability to have more than one LED lit up at once and can have this toggle behavior. I keep things pretty simple so this isn't a huge issue for me. I know what effects are assigned to what pedals and based on the tone I know exactly what scene I'm on or what effects are in use. I highly suggest making good use of scenes rather than individual stomps - I think I use stomps for my delay and reverbs, that's it. everything else is relegated to scenes.
     
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  19. Dino334

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    Hey John,
    Did you get the eureka prom or set yours up,with the fcb? I used to use that with my 2 and will use it with my 3 when it comes in tomorrow. I’m pretty good at programming those things and have a program to easily program them. I’m just going to set my cc’s on the 3 to match what I have on my 2 and it should be golden. I’ll let you know if you’re interested.
     
  20. jproxu

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    Hey Dean, Tim and I had little success programming the fcb1010 with the lll. Perhaps you can share your wealth of knowledge in this arena?
     
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