Axe-Fx III and Eventide H9000

[Don Watters]

Is anyone here using an Axe FX III with an Eventide H9000 or H9000R yet? I currently have two H9’s that I use as outboard effects for my Axe FX III, but I’m thinking of moving to the H9000R to replace the H9’s. The routing possibilities with the amount of I/O between the two units is just crazy. I was just wondering if anyone is working on this yet, to see if there are any integration issues, like locking on word clock or control conflicts or whatever, I’d appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

I assume the question will come, “why do you need it, when the Axe FX III is so powerful?” I just see the Eventide as a leader in effects, while Fractal Audio is a leader in Amp modeling. If I want two amps and two cabs, with two reverbs and a plex delay on the Axe FX III, on an already complex preset like Milo's ambience preset, I’m getting to CPU limits on the unit. If I push the effects that are heaviest in the Axe FX III to the H9000, I can let the Amps and Cabs on the Axe FX III do their job, without worrying about CPU limits. For anyone that still questions it, go and load up Milo’s ambience presets. Based on having to add inputs to support low and high output guitars, I am past the limit. I have to remove a reverb to let the preset work. This just allows me to split processing, if needed.

Edited for clarity.

 

[iaresee]

like locking on word clock

I probably wouldn't route signals over digital. Then you don't have this issue. The analog I/O routing is still more flexible on the AFIII so I'd use that to connect them.

I assume the question will come, “why do you need it, when the Axe FX III is so powerful?”

People aren't thinking big enough if they're asking this question.

 

[grape]

I intended to try the H9000R but I don’t think it’s shipping yet.

I don’t think connecting digitally is going to be an issue but you may want to connect analog as well for more loops. I wish the axe had adat, madi, avb, for this purpose but that’s life.

I’m more interested in the capability of the H9000 in terms of effects vs the Axefx. Right now, I’m not convinced that the H9000 is worth it in its current form.

Anyway, let us know if you try it out and I’ll do the same.

Ps you may want to consider a second AxeFX instead if you are concerned about maxing out the cpu. I mean it’s nearly 1/3 the cost! So unless there are effects or some capability in the H9000 that you are really interested in.... I’d spend some money to save some money.

 

[2112]

The question we need to be asking is "why buy one H9000 when you can buy 3 more Axe-Fx III's?"

In all seriousness, the H9000 does look amazing for I/O and sheer horsepower but are there any new algorithms that it's running that the H8000 or previous units don't have? If you're hitting the limit with CPU on the Axe you can do things like change the reverb quality and lowering the density parameter which have a negligible effect on the overall tone for guitar applications.

 

[Bodde]

The question we need to be asking is "why buy one H9000 when you can buy 3 more Axe-Fx III's?"
.

Because the Eventide sounds different.

 

[jlynnb1]

Is anyone here using an Axe FX III with an Eventide H9000 or H9000R yet? I currently have two H9’s that I use as outboard effects for my Axe FX III, but I’m thinking of moving to the H9000R to replace the H9’s. The routing possibilities with the amount of I/O between the two units is just crazy. I was just wondering if anyone is working on this yet, to see if there are any integration issues, like locking on word clock or control conflicts or whatever, I’d appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

I assume the question will come, “why do you need it, when the Axe FX III is so powerful?” I just see the Eventide as a leader in effects, while Fractal Audio is a leader in Amp modeling. If I want two amps and two cabs, with two reverbs and a plex delay on the Axe FX III, I’m getting to CPU limits on the unit. If I push the effects that are heaviest in the Axe FX III to the H9000, I can let the Amps and Cabs on the Axe FX III do their job, without worrying about CPU limits. For anyone that still questions it, go and load up Milo’s ambiance presets. Based on having to add inputs to support low and high output guitars, I am past the limit. I have to remove a reverb to let the preset work. This just allows me to split processing, if needed.

how have I seen presets with like 50 blocks that aren't hitting the CPU limits but you are saying that you have 7 blocks and you are?

 

[unix-guy]

how have I seen presets with like 50 blocks that aren't hitting the CPU limits but you are saying that you have 7 blocks and you are?

Maybe each Cab has 4 IRs active? It's a good point... Rereading that post, it doesn't feel like it should be CPU constrained. The CPU difference between 1 Amp block and 2 is nominal.

 

[Eliju]

Because the Eventide sounds different.

No doubt everything Eventide makes sounds beautiful, but what can they do that you can't at least get close enough with one the Axe?
I'm not sure about getting a sound like this I tried and couldn't get that close, but I'm sure some of the folks here could. I couldn't find a nice demo of the unit. There's only a few short clips with a sound or two. I'd like to see someone really show off what it can do.

 

[Don Watters]

Maybe each Cab has 4 IRs active? It's a good point... Rereading that post, it doesn't feel like it should be CPU constrained. The CPU difference between 1 Amp block and 2 is nominal.

Like I said, load up Milo's Ambience FX preset. Switch to the 5th Scene "Organ".
.
http://www.camilovelandia.com/downloads.html

This is with 1 amp block, 1 cab block, and one of the two reverb's is set to "normal" and not "high" quality. There's nothing especially egregious about the preset (I really like it, thanks to Milo for sharing). The preset is over 90% CPU. I know that there are a ton of ways to change this behavior, by degrading the blocks in the preset to fit the Axe FX III better, like many of you did with previous versions of the Axe FX. I've had my Axe FX III lock up while trying to edit this particular preset, which is why I use it as the example. Not really a great experience, when thinking about using this live. Why even go through the trouble if you don't have to? Just set up an Output block as a send, an Input block as a return and be done with it, and get the same result, if not better. I already use those blocks to send to an H9 and 4CM. It's not changing anything for my presets to just send the audio to a different device.

For those that were telling me not to worry about locking word clock, I already worry about it, because I use SPDIF out to capture the direct signal out for reamping (if you haven't had the fun of listening to fizzy output because it's not locking, you're missing out). I also have the Axe FX III setup for 4CM, with an additional two inputs into the AXE FX III set for high output and lower output guitars, based on this group's recommendations to deal with the drastic change from guitars with pre-amps built-in. I've already almost exhausted the available I/O on the Axe FX III, and I'm not really doing anything spectacular. Just using all of the inputs and outputs for maximum flexibility in my setup. So, the question regarding the H9000 is if there are any integration issues (since the Axe FX is locked to 48.1K on digital out), not trying to incite a debate about why, although, here we are. If there are issues that people have run into, then I'd rather know now, so that I can isolate those things in my setup.

By adding in an H9000(R) into the mix, my presets don't change (already have out and in blocks as sends and returns in my presets). I can remove the chance of the system locking up and end up with a different library of sonic possibilities. I use these kinds of effects for inspiration. And sometimes, it's a completely unforeseen thing, where it just happens and it all feels right, because you turned an octavizer with a fuzz on or you turned a crystal reverb on or just the right amp sound. It may not happen for you, but it happens for me. I like the idea of having more possibilities. I'm not concerned with the cost. It's more about having something that inspires me.

 

[Don Watters]

The question we need to be asking is "why buy one H9000 when you can buy 3 more Axe-Fx III's?"

In all seriousness, the H9000 does look amazing for I/O and sheer horsepower but are there any new algorithms that it's running that the H8000 or previous units don't have? If you're hitting the limit with CPU on the Axe you can do things like change the reverb quality and lowering the density parameter which have a negligible effect on the overall tone for guitar applications.

The next set of updates is supposed to have H9000 specific algorithms. I don't have an H8000 though, so I have nothing to compare to. I just have the two H9's, which I see one in your rack too, in your videos. I just love the effects in there. BTW, the H9000R would only be 2X the cost of an Axe FX III.

 

[unix-guy]

Like I said, load up Milo's Ambience FX preset. Switch to the 5th Scene "Organ".
.
http://www.camilovelandia.com/downloads.html

This is with 1 amp block, 1 cab block, and one of the two reverb's is set to "normal" and not "high" quality. There's nothing especially egregious about the preset (I really like it, thanks to Milo for sharing). The preset is over 90% CPU. I know that there are a ton of ways to change this behavior, by degrading the blocks in the preset to fit the Axe FX III better, like many of you did with previous versions of the Axe FX. I've had my Axe FX III lock up while trying to edit this particular preset, which is why I use it as the example. Not really a great experience, when thinking about using this live. Why even go through the trouble if you don't have to? Just set up an Output block as a send, an Input block as a return and be done with it, and get the same result, if not better. I already use those blocks to send to an H9 and 4CM. It's not changing anything for my presets to just send the audio to a different device.

For those that were telling me not to worry about locking word clock, I already worry about it, because I use SPDIF out to capture the direct signal out for reamping (if you haven't had the fun of listening to fizzy output because it's not locking, you're missing out). I also have the Axe FX III setup for 4CM, with an additional two inputs into the AXE FX III set for high output and lower output guitars, based on this group's recommendations to deal with the drastic change from guitars with pre-amps built-in. I've already almost exhausted the available I/O on the Axe FX III, and I'm not really doing anything spectacular. Just using all of the inputs and outputs for maximum flexibility in my setup. So, the question regarding the H9000 is if there are any integration issues (since the Axe FX is locked to 48.1K on digital out), not trying to incite a debate about why, although, here we are. If there are issues that people have run into, then I'd rather know now, so that I can isolate those things in my setup.

By adding in an H9000(R) into the mix, my presets don't change (already have out and in blocks as sends and returns in my presets). I can remove the chance of the system locking up and end up with a different library of sonic possibilities. I use these kinds of effects for inspiration. And sometimes, it's a completely unforeseen thing, where it just happens and it all feels right, because you turned an octavizer with a fuzz on or you turned a crystal reverb on or just the right amp sound. It may not happen for you, but it happens for me. I like the idea of having more possibilities. I'm not concerned with the cost. It's more about having something that inspires me.

That preset (based on this screen grab from the video) has 16 blocks in it.



The CPU usage is based on all the blocks, regardless of whether they are enabled or not in the scene. THAT is why the CPU is so high...

If you want the sound of that scene without the high CPU, remove all the inactive blocks.

I don't think this preset was configured as something to use live, but rather a demo preset to show various capabilities within a single preset.

 

[grape]

I didn’t say don’t worry about it. I said it probably won’t be an issue. If they mess up the digital io then they are going to tank the product. It is meant to work with many different types of digital so I have some faith that it will work.

On the axe side, I’ve only had startup issues with spdif and aes sync (III only) and am working through some clock issues with usb (multiple axes). I never use 44.1 and haven’t had an issue connecting digitally with a spattering of other devices. Anyway, we don’t know until someone tries it.

Is the H9000R available? I don’t think so. Until it is, the only option to compare prices is the H9000. How long did it take for that one to actually ship? I’ve been watching it for awhile and the release dates were pushed repeatedly. As I said, I’ll check it out when it’s available and maybe I can get some answers.

One more thing.... for sure the eventide sounds different but is it different in a way that’s important to you? For me the answer is currently... maybe. For you it sounded like you were simply cpu bound to which I firmly say.. get a second axe and save the money (be it 1/2, 2/3, or whatever).

 

[FractalAudio]

Like I said, load up Milo's Ambience FX preset. Switch to the 5th Scene "Organ".
.
http://www.camilovelandia.com/downloads.html

This is with 1 amp block, 1 cab block, and one of the two reverb's is set to "normal" and not "high" quality. There's nothing especially egregious about the preset (I really like it, thanks to Milo for sharing). The preset is over 90% CPU. I know that there are a ton of ways to change this behavior, by degrading the blocks in the preset to fit the Axe FX III better, like many of you did with previous versions of the Axe FX. I've had my Axe FX III lock up while trying to edit this particular preset, which is why I use it as the example. Not really a great experience, when thinking about using this live. Why even go through the trouble if you don't have to? Just set up an Output block as a send, an Input block as a return and be done with it, and get the same result, if not better. I already use those blocks to send to an H9 and 4CM. It's not changing anything for my presets to just send the audio to a different device.

For those that were telling me not to worry about locking word clock, I already worry about it, because I use SPDIF out to capture the direct signal out for reamping (if you haven't had the fun of listening to fizzy output because it's not locking, you're missing out). I also have the Axe FX III setup for 4CM, with an additional two inputs into the AXE FX III set for high output and lower output guitars, based on this group's recommendations to deal with the drastic change from guitars with pre-amps built-in. I've already almost exhausted the available I/O on the Axe FX III, and I'm not really doing anything spectacular. Just using all of the inputs and outputs for maximum flexibility in my setup. So, the question regarding the H9000 is if there are any integration issues (since the Axe FX is locked to 48.1K on digital out), not trying to incite a debate about why, although, here we are. If there are issues that people have run into, then I'd rather know now, so that I can isolate those things in my setup.

By adding in an H9000(R) into the mix, my presets don't change (already have out and in blocks as sends and returns in my presets). I can remove the chance of the system locking up and end up with a different library of sonic possibilities. I use these kinds of effects for inspiration. And sometimes, it's a completely unforeseen thing, where it just happens and it all feels right, because you turned an octavizer with a fuzz on or you turned a crystal reverb on or just the right amp sound. It may not happen for you, but it happens for me. I like the idea of having more possibilities. I'm not concerned with the cost. It's more about having something that inspires me.

Uh, that preset has 16 blocks in it.

 

[chris]

This is with 1 amp block, 1 cab block, and one of the two reverb's is set to "normal" and not "high" quality. There's nothing especially egregious about the preset (I really like it, thanks to Milo for sharing). The preset is over 90% CPU.

Are you just ignoring all of the other blocks?

 

[Don Watters]

Are you just ignoring all of the other blocks?

No, I'm not. I was using the preset as an example of 1 amp, 1 cab, maxed CPU.

 

[Don Watters]

Uh, that preset has 16 blocks in it.

Agreed. I haven't been an Axe FX III user for very long. I've never used a Fractal Audio product before this. I know that so many people have lived through having to limit themselves and their presets based on the hardware, in the past. I know that there's tons of headroom, if I tune the presets to be less of a hog. My question was related to if there was integration issues that I had to prepare for. Nothing more.

 

[unix-guy]

No, I'm not. I was using the preset as an example of 1 amp, 1 cab, maxed CPU.

This preset is NOT an example of that...

 

[Don Watters]

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Is the H9000R available?

I'm having the SweetWater folks check on availability. I plan on getting the R, because for me, it's a better deal. I feel like saving $2K on buttons and a screen is worth it. I don't really care about the cost otherwise. If they only had the H9000, I'd end up getting it.

Regarding the CPU limits...it's adjunct to what I really want, which is to use Eventide for effects, which is what I think I originally outlined.

 

[Don Watters]

This preset is NOT an example of that...

It isn't? You mean I'm somehow missing the other amp and cab on there? Come on...seriously...you guys will argue about anything... If I add a new pedal to my current pedal setup, none of the other pedals care...they just work. If we're limiting the number of blocks in a preset, then why not offload that work?

 

[iaresee]

If I add a new pedal to my current pedal setup, none of the other pedals care...they just work. If we're limiting the number of blocks in a preset, then why not offload that work?

Because these two things are not comparable: pedals on a board and blocks in a a preset. The pedals on the board don't share a set of processors. A better analogy is running more programs at the same on your computer. There are only so many programs you can run before the computer runs out of resources and can't run any more and they start running slow and sluggish.

The Eventide gear functions in the same was as the Fractal gear in this regard.

you guys will argue about anything

No one is arguing. But you're definitely failing to understand how digital processing works.