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Axe-Fx III 16.00 Beta 4 "Cygnus" Firmware - Public Beta

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DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
One of the things that Cygnus models more accurately is bias excursion and, in general, there is more bias excursion than before. You may not like the sound of bias excursion but it is part of what makes a real tube amp sound and feel the way it does. So one tweak to try is to reduce Master Bias Excursion or any of the individual bias excursion parameters.
So that more compressed feel I experience on some amps is due to that I suppose. Will turning down bias excursion also give me back some of that low end thump on palm mutes?

The other thing with Cyngus is the power tube bias. The previous firmware biased the virtual power tubes a bit hot in comparison to real amps. This was necessary because of the algorithm to prevent unwanted crossover distortion. The new algorithms are more accurate and, as a result, the power tube bias matches the real amps. If you want that old sound increase the Power Tube Grid Bias. Try around 0.6 to start.
Does power tube grid bias still correspond to the dissipation? 0.7=70%?
 

bdrepko

Fractal Fanatic
If I'm playing softly I like it. At louder volumes I don't use it. That is, btw, precisely the intent as it simulates the acoustic reinforcement of a guitar played near a loud amp.
Just curious, do you use any output compression at loud volumes or just not Gain Enhancer?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
So that more compressed feel I experience on some amps is due to that I suppose. Will turning down bias excursion also give me back some of that low end thump on palm mutes?
I don't know. Try it. I find that Cygnus has much more low end thump than before and the vast majority of others agree.

Does power tube grid bias still correspond to the dissipation? 0.7=70%?
No.
 

aens

Experienced
If I'm playing softly I like it. At louder volumes I don't use it. That is, btw, precisely the intent as it simulates the acoustic reinforcement of a guitar played near a loud amp.
I don’t know if anyone else uses Gain enhancer like I do, but I use it to fine-tune the gain when I’m comparing my tone and settings to a real life situation. Like a gain tone match. I.e. in a situation where you know the other player had the drive at noon, but your sound doesn’t seem to have anywhere near enough gain or aggressiveness with same settings.

Try raising the Gain enhancer value until you feel like there’s enough gain or distortion in your sound. That’s kind of what it does. If you don’t like the results, add gain in other ways instead (drive knob, boost etc.). This is of course in situations when I have to use headphones or play with minimum volume.

Sorry if this is too obvious. I kind of struggled on why and where to set the gain enhancer for a while.
 
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bshaw92

Experienced
Cygnus is demonstrably more accurate.
In A/B comparisons with my tube amps exactly this. I would also say that running through my PA/FRFR powered speaker is very very close to just coming out of the cabinet with the tube amp (while playing loud in a room which is what I love). I'm not sure I would even bother with a SS amp into a cab any longer.

The volume knob on the guitar and your fingers react as with the tube amp. The volume rolled down cleans up but still has a body and fatness to it that was not in any digital device before to this accuracy.
 

MikeyB59

Power User
You have to turn down the Normal Volume. If you didn't update Axe-Edit that control won't be visible.
OMG!!! I don't know what just happened here, but WOW. I have an original III at my house and a new III at studio. I updated to 16 at house, reset parameters and posted the thing that Cliff responded to about needing the new Axe Edit to see the Normal volume. At the studio I updated newer III to 16, downloaded new Axe edit and reset parameters.

It's a whole new amp. I have no idea what's up with the original III and that upgrade. I'm going to have to figure that out. Reinstall, get Axe Edit up to date, rest parameters again. Even before dealing with bright/normal drives with new III installation, just turning down the input drive to .2 completely transformed the amp into what I expected, a relatively clean, not hairy, but super full sound. This sounds amazing. To me, if the Axe just had this model and the effects it would be totally worth it the $. I can get from clean enough for funk to complete raging drive out of this amp.

I do wonder why one upgrade sounds magical and the other totally different. Makes me wonder if some people's dissatisfaction has same cause as mine, something weird with upgrade, because once the upgrade took, this version is light's out great.

Addendum.....I reinstalled the firmware on the III that wasn't sounding right and that fixed it. Not sure why it didn't take first time, but it was a quick fix and now the 2 units sound identical.
 
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RevDrucifer

Experienced
@RevDrucifer

Love my FreqOut, how natural it sounds and fades in. One of the last remaining pedals in my possession.

The FreQout and my Talk Box are the only pedals I still use. I still have all my old pedals because I refuse to sell gear after too many regrets over the years. Maybe the AxeFX IV will have a spot to attach a talk box tube to! :D
 

Covrea

New Member
Exactly. If you've been playing tube amps for years you recognize these qualities.

I can't please everyone. So what I do is try to replicate a real tube amp as accurately as possible as that is the gold standard. Cygnus is demonstrably more accurate. I have the math and measurements that prove it.

IMO it makes playing the amps more enjoyable. It may make recording require some more work, just like you would with a real tube amp. I don't know as I haven't tried that.

For now if you don't like the changes go back to 15.01 or try some of the advanced tweaks. One of the things that Cygnus models more accurately is bias excursion and, in general, there is more bias excursion than before. You may not like the sound of bias excursion but it is part of what makes a real tube amp sound and feel the way it does. So one tweak to try is to reduce Master Bias Excursion or any of the individual bias excursion parameters.

The other thing with Cyngus is the power tube bias. The previous firmware biased the virtual power tubes a bit hot in comparison to real amps. This was necessary because of the algorithm to prevent unwanted crossover distortion. The new algorithms are more accurate and, as a result, the power tube bias matches the real amps. If you want that old sound increase the Power Tube Grid Bias. Try around 0.6 to start.
Wow thank you so much for the info!
 
I tried the factory Legacy SOLO IRs with the Soldano amp models, and I was getting extremely aggressive, focused, and easy to love tones in higher gain. It was making me play in a different way, paradoxically more relaxed. It was a strange and illuminating experience, like I’ve been missing something before. I was first resetting the amp block, which for me also means setting presence and depth to zero, then looking at the preselected speaker impedance curve and experimenting with factory IRs in that group. This is just a starting point.

None of it matters in the end of course, because there are no rules in tone, but for right now it’s just a huge luxury to have this detail of authenticity. Having never been able to afford any of the amps I loved, I’m living that experience now, and I’m finding it unreal.
 

Omri Bazelet

Inspired
Exactly. If you've been playing tube amps for years you recognize these qualities.

I can't please everyone. So what I do is try to replicate a real tube amp as accurately as possible as that is the gold standard. Cygnus is demonstrably more accurate. I have the math and measurements that prove it.

IMO it makes playing the amps more enjoyable. It may make recording require some more work, just like you would with a real tube amp. I don't know as I haven't tried that.

For now if you don't like the changes go back to 15.01 or try some of the advanced tweaks. One of the things that Cygnus models more accurately is bias excursion and, in general, there is more bias excursion than before. You may not like the sound of bias excursion but it is part of what makes a real tube amp sound and feel the way it does. So one tweak to try is to reduce Master Bias Excursion or any of the individual bias excursion parameters.

The other thing with Cyngus is the power tube bias. The previous firmware biased the virtual power tubes a bit hot in comparison to real amps. This was necessary because of the algorithm to prevent unwanted crossover distortion. The new algorithms are more accurate and, as a result, the power tube bias matches the real amps. If you want that old sound increase the Power Tube Grid Bias. Try around 0.6 to start.
Must say, your gold standard is pretty much ENDLESS!

Like, you had me stoked in 15.01 of it bloom and open sound and I was sure that's it.
BUT NO! It never ends. You came out with Cygnus and said, now you have much more realistic tube amp feel and thump, and that's the beta!

I really want to end my session work so I can re dial my presets to Cygnus beta and give you my inspect and help get Cygnus to even Superior perfection!

GO GO FRACTAL TEAM!
 

Covrea

New Member
That really means a lot that you gave me some insight. I will revisit it along with your recommendations and keep you posted. Thanks again!
 

capt994

New Member
I've been playing with Cygnus firmware non-stop since the first few minutes it was released. Let me start by saying I absolutely loved the tones I was getting from the 15.01 firmware. However, Cygnus just took modeling to the next level! The aitr/gut-punching chug that 15.01 was close to getting, but not quite there, is now there. In high gain amp models, the way the notes of a chord interact with one another remind me very much of a tube amp. I've been very much enjoying making a basic patch of amp, cab, delay and reverb and switching through the amp models, AT STOCK SETTINGS and still can't believe the tones/feel I'm getting from a modeler. For those of you that are waiting for the final release...you're in for one hell of a treat!
 

danser

New Member
Ok, I'm throwing in my 2 cents. I loaded 16 beta, love what I'm hearing and feeling. I mainly play Fender, Vox, Marshall types with the occasional Mesa MKIV. Every once in a while I need a high gain monster so after checking out the AC20 Deluxe (which imo is killer) I went to the Cameron, Splawn and Angle.
To me they do seem, not muddy but cloudy? Upper bass to lower mid heavy. I'm not real familiar with those amps so I loaded FW 15.01 and tried them again and they are much clearer although that chug weight is gone.
I am familiar with the Euro model (using the factory preset) and that didn't sound right until I did a soft rest. So I went back and did that with the Splawn and sure enough, it sounds awesome.
Next step is to use fractool and batch reset the amp block. Pretty sure that'll have me rocking. Pretty sure that Cliff wrote we don't need to do a reset as the amp will update upon loading the preset but I'm definitely hearing a difference.
I don't speak English, and with the translator I can't understand something. Could you explain to me what this phrase means?
I am familiar with the Euro model (using the factory preset) and that didn't sound right until I did a soft rest. So I went back and did that with
the Splawn and sure enough, it sounds awesome.
Thanks !!!
 
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