Axe-Fx III 16.00 Beta 11 "Cygnus" Firmware - Public Beta #8

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Ok, I've took a quick look at the HBE-100 models in the same firmwares (15.01, 16 Beta 4 and 16 Beta 11) as I took a look at the BE Models. This morning I dialed up the stock HBE-100 V1, then I increased the gain to around 7 and 8, which is not uncommon for this amp to be set at say 8 for BE then kick in the HBE for solos, which means due to sharing a gain control on the real amp the gain setting would stay the same, 7-8 in this case. To me, this just can't be right? It almost sounds like you have a fuzz pedal blended in say 30%.

This to me seems to indicate the previous HBE models were either very innacurate, which I don't believe they were from my experience with them and my amp, or there is possibly a mistake here.

A quick look at Input EQ low cut on previous models and previous firmwares, again this may be totally irrelevant due to the differing algorithms and not knowing how they relate to the changes behind the model in the SPICE or whatever we don't see or understand.

15.01

BE Marsha = 500Hz
HBE Marsha = 500Hz

BE Mark Day = 500Hz
HBE Mark Day = 350Hz

No BE model
HBE 2018 = 540Hz

16 Beta 4

BE = 445Hz
HBE = 48Hz

16 Beta 11

BE = 303Hz
HBE = 57Hz

Now anyone who is having serious issues with how they hear the HBE in Cygnus try these older low cut values, particularly if you really enjoyed HBE 2018 from 15.01 so try 540Hz. That to me sounds much more like how you will have heard the Ares model sounding.

So this leaves the question considering a wildly different low cut on these models from firmware to firmware is this just to do with how it relates to the new Cygnus modelling in the background or is there also a mistake somewhere as I'm pretty such the HBE should not sound like a Fuzz/slight square wave mixed in even at stock setings with the gain at 8/10, esecially an amp noted for it's quite tight bottom end, as mentioned and quoted here and in the wiki regarding Carol-Ann amps:

"I think what people like about this amp is the same reason people like the BE/HBE. These amps share the same aggressive low-cut on the input and then add bass back in the power amp. This gives clear bass response without getting flubby."

Obviously this isn't what we are hearing here anymore. Also worth noting could the low cut at 48/57 be mising a zero on the end? We do know other tight modded Marshall type models, take the Atomica High for instance have no low cut applied to the model and sounds perfectly tight, so who knows?

The grid bias etc has been mentioned an steps to "combat" this have been mentioned, so here is the quote for anyone else who may have missed this earlier in other beta threads:

"That's the way the HBE channel sounds. The problem with the design is that the drive control is located between the 3rd and 4th gain stages. Too far back IMO. This causes a lot of distortion and also a lot of bias excursion before the drive control with no way to control it. In most amps the drive control is located after the first stage (input buffer). Some amps have a second drive control, typically called an Overdrive, located further downstream which allows you to balance the pre- and post distortion. One way to deal with it is to decrease the Input Trim and increase the Input Drive. You can also try reducing the Master Bias Excursion but that won't get rid of the pre-drive control distortion. A lot of people like this sound though. It has a certain stringy quality that many people find desirable." source

Anyway I'll leave this here. I hope to anyone reading this isn't coming across as me with a dickish attitude? This is a beta phase and this is what beta testing is for, trying to weed out any potential bugs.

If the main man chimes in, has a check or whatever lets us know the score and verifies that everything is as is, I guess anyone who still isn't happy we can just choose another amp model, hell knows there are more than enough for that modded Marshall tone, try some teaks as many have mentioned, or worst case if the old BE sound we had is so important to the player, then make the choice to srick with 15.01.
Thanks for this. Mistake or not, I just tried bumping the low cut up to ~500Hz and I definitely prefer it over the default value.
I couldn’t agree more. I loved my Friedman sounds on 15. And now I also miss my Be C45!!!!
Yeah, BE with C45 was one of my favorites. I don't use the Fat or Sat switches much on my real BE Deluxe, but I do kick on the C45 switch pretty often. Especially when I have the gain set lower or when using single coils.
 
Clip below is HBE V3 at stock settings then with the input EQ low cut at 500hz.




You can hear the "fuzzy lows" in the first clip. The second clip lines up more with what I'm used to with that amp model. Feels really good too.

The Smallbox rips on this FW too.
 
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Clip below is HBE V3 at stock settings then with the input EQ low cut at 500hz.




You can hear the "fuzzy lows" in the first clip. The second clip lines up more with what I'm used to with that amp model. Feels really good too.

The Smallbox rips on this FW too.

You’re the man!
 
Until today, I've been running my AXE III through my old BBE 462 and an Alesis dual 30-band EQ (with a SS amp and Marshall 4X12s) to get the exact warmth and tones that I wanted. This morning, either the 462 or the EQ stopped working so I plugged the AXE directly into the power amp. How about that. With Cygnus, unlike Ares, I no longer have to use either of the extra components. But it does mean that I had to readjust the AXE's global EQ, and will have to readjust all of my presets and scenes. I'm planning to go FRFR when I can, and now feel confident that I'll get the sounds I want with nothing but the right active speakers and the AXE.
 
Until today, I've been running my AXE III through my old BBE 462 and an Alesis dual 30-band EQ (with a SS amp and Marshall 4X12s) to get the exact warmth and tones that I wanted. This morning, either the 462 or the EQ stopped working so I plugged the AXE directly into the power amp. How about that. With Cygnus, unlike Ares, I no longer have to use either of the extra components. But it does mean that I had to readjust the AXE's global EQ, and will have to readjust all of my presets and scenes. I'm planning to go FRFR when I can, and now feel confident that I'll get the sounds I want with nothing but the right active speakers and the AXE.
I have both FRFR and real cabs, and yesterday, I played a game of how close can I get them to match. I decided I would Louis and Clark the Cab block so I tweaked just about every parameter using the Wiki as my guide. It's scary close now; still hard to compare a 1x12 to a 4x12 if you know the difference in real life but nobody else would know or care sonically :) Especially, in a recording.

It used to be very different, IRs sounded thin and boxy, and you needed to mix them to get a decent tone but I'm getting very close to real V30s from the Celestion V30 stereo IRs.
 
Strange to sacrifice the whole preset with a huge cut like this in the input signal when you have a cut button, and boost that’s does the job in the main amp . It will destroy your clean sound if you have one in another scene
 
Clip below is HBE V3 at stock settings then with the input EQ low cut at 500hz.




You can hear the "fuzzy lows" in the first clip. The second clip lines up more with what I'm used to with that amp model. Feels really good too.

The Smallbox rips on this FW too.

Thanks for chiming in @2112 Leon, I'm a subscriber to your channel, my favourite Axe FX vids out there. You hearing what I'm hearing is a good confirmation to me that something is a miss.
 
Clip below is HBE V3 at stock settings then with the input EQ low cut at 500hz.




You can hear the "fuzzy lows" in the first clip. The second clip lines up more with what I'm used to with that amp model. Feels really good too.

The Smallbox rips on this FW too.

I agree LT... Been using a Smallbox preset I had. A few small tweaks and it is now my go to preset.
 
Poorly played random Metallica licks between a Mark III and the Cygnus C+ Bright Deep model.

Honesty I forgot which is which.

Using a Bogner Uberkab. It's an Apogee mic into GarageBand. Mic did not move between the clips.



 
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I'll take another look at the models.
Thanks Cliff, maybe I'm wrong but there is also somehing weird when engaging the Sat Switch (sounds more like engaging a fuzz than more saturation)
I had the Friedman BE 100 Deluxe and it was easy to dial in a Friedman JJ Sound with engaging the sat switch.
 
I have dial the tone in my video with the V3 in 15 minutes and it’s ultra tight as you can hear . So I still don’t understand where the problem is 😅
 
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