Axe-Fx III 16.00 Beta 11 "Cygnus" Firmware - Public Beta #8

Status
Not open for further replies.
Finally had a chance to start dialing in my amps again and the ones I do have, holy moly...

The new speaker compression is amazing I can actually feel the string as a pluck through it. Hard to describe but the feeling of going through the string now matches the sound you hear almost like an acoustic guitar, really amazing stuff.
Most my values are 3000-4000 ms now so those messing around try raising it from default.

Also hard to describe, but I've been playing since I was 4 and about 8 years ago switched to modellers. Since then I've been chasing something in the feel that never well... felt right. I knew I couldn't afford the amps and efx that I would want for my tone so modellers were the best choice, plus it made recording way easier. However, this disconnection made me feel almost like I wasn't as quick as I used to be and made me spin off into a rabbit hole. Anyway enough about me... Today, that disconnection was fixed (or connected if you will) playing along to a backing track I really got lost in the moment and after I was in a bit of shock as to how well I can actually play again.

I don't know what sort of wizardry you pulled Cliff, but whatever it is you nailed it. 10/10
A picture says ...

kNaJdgM.jpg
 
This is a Hairy Friedman I just came up with and its a high gain made through a couple CLRs cranking. Big four ir goes in cab 1 and big 5 goes in 2 because there is a little alignment in there. I have an unusual sound I think mainly from my ir's, let me know what you think and if there is something you might suggest. Thanks
sounds great on my FM3 :) Thanks
 
This may be a long post.............

Concerning the Friedman BE100 I'll admit I am, or should I say was one of the guys that was still thinking something is broke in these models in Cygnus. I noticed the issue in I think it was firmware 16 Beta 5 that something was off compared to Beta 4 and I was intially told it was the "power of suggestion". I made some clips posted them up and sure enough a fault was found with the model and was put right in the next beta. But ever since then I have been still feeling and thinking I'm hearing that something still isn't right, like a few others are. The BE100-V1-2018 model was my main go to amp in firmware 15.

So I went back to Firmware 15.01 setup up a preset of the old BE100 V1 2018 model, everything except the IR I used at stock settings. Nothing but an Input Block > Amp Block > Cab Block > Output Block.

I then took screen shots of every page in Axe Edit and noted every parameters setting. I then recorded a simple riff to listen back critically.

I did the same for firmware 16 Beta 4 (before the excursion fault appeared) and 16 beta 11 the latest we have where the new models were added (V3 etc). For the fimware 16 comparisons I used BE100 V1, which is the direct Cygnus replacement for the old V1 2018 model.

Below is a link to a spreadsheet showing all relevent parameters we can see have changed in Axe Edit over these three firmwares. This may help anyone struggling with the Cynus models to get closer to Ares model if thats what they prefer but don't want to miss out on all the good stuff as well by staying on 15. Bare in mind the settings are obviously for two totally different amp modelling algorithms. One of the main things to notice which might help is that the low cut frequency changes quite a bit between the firmwares, which a few have noticed. Why? only Cliff could answer how that relates to everything he codes that we don't see in the background that isn't available in Axe Edit.

BE100 Parameters Link

One of the differences I believe some people maybe hearing and not liking in the Cygnus models is if they are using similar or the same master volume levels they used on firmware 15. Now we know and were told the Log 15 taper never changed for the model, but all the other tweaks under the hood we don't see will still effect the headroom levels differently I would assume even if the master volume is set the same. All three firmwares at the same stock settings came out at different volumes and also showed different levels on the power amp headroom meter. I always liked the master volume set at stock 4.0 the best in Ares on this model, so using the headroom meter, to get a steady reading I ran a sine wave from the synth block into the amp and checked where that would send the headroom meter and took a note. It lands on -2.1 dB in firmware 15.01. Do the same on 16 Beta 4 same stock settings and it lands on -7.8 dB and on 16 Beta 11 and it arives at -1.2 dB. So obvious changes to the model during the beta phase are effecting this. I matched the headroom level I was getting in 15 at 4.0 on the master to firmware 16 Beta 4 and Beta 11 and had to set the master volume to different levels on both, 5.7 on beta 4 and 3.75 on beta 11. Again quite a difference. So maybe master volume as has been mentioned to other could be part of the issue.

I made 5 clips in total and tried to volume match then in Pro Tools the best I could.

Clip 1: Firmware 15 Stock Settings
Clip 2: Firmware 16 Beta 4 Stock Settings
Clip 3: Firmware 16 Beta 4 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15
Clip 4: Firmware 16 Beta 11 Stock Settings
Clip 5: Firmware 16 Beta 11 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15

Upon listening back to these rather than playing and listening at the same time I'm not sure in the later Cygus betas they are as fuzzy as I was thinking whilst playing, when I listened back I starting thinking the Cygnus Friedmans are actually quite fine and are sounding better to my ears today......who knows maybe there is still a little part of code/setting wrong that has snuck in there again? Maybe I've been just enjoying the Cygus Mesa Marks more and thats what I'm starting to learn more towards? The fuzz would probably be more apparent if I was running my usual gain on 8 maybe as well.

Anyway if anyone finds any of this useful and helps them out then it wasn't a waste of time. Maybe this is just a truer representation of what a real BE100 with the lowered negative feedback sounds like, I've only played the older model with the NFB off the jack, when I got my JMP 2203 modded to a BE100 circuit I had my NFB set exactly like this newer model 47k I believe off the 4 ohm tap and much prefered the more raw tone, so maybe this is the real more raw tone compared to the older model and is obviously more accurate?

If Cliff reads this maybe one last look over the BE/HBE models would put a lot of people at ease, although I'm sure he's been over this model a few times already?

Also did anyone mention if we are getting the C45 setting on the all the relevent models like before? Were they accidentaly missed off or still getting finished ready for full release?

 
This may be a long post.............

Concerning the Friedman BE100 I'll admit I am, or should I say was one of the guys that was still thinking something is broke in these models in Cygnus. I noticed the issue in I think it was firmware 16 Beta 5 that something was off compared to Beta 4 and I was intially told it was the "power of suggestion". I made some clips posted them up and sure enough a fault was found with the model and was put right in the next beta. But ever since then I have been still feeling and thinking I'm hearing that something still isn't right, like a few others are. The BE100-V1-2018 model was my main go to amp in firmware 15.

So I went back to Firmware 15.01 setup up a preset of the old BE100 V1 2018 model, everything except the IR I used at stock settings. Nothing but an Input Block > Amp Block > Cab Block > Output Block.

I then took screen shots of every page in Axe Edit and noted every parameters setting. I then recorded a simple riff to listen back critically.

I did the same for firmware 16 Beta 4 (before the excursion fault appeared) and 16 beta 11 the latest we have where the new models were added (V3 etc). For the fimware 16 comparisons I used BE100 V1, which is the direct Cygnus replacement for the old V1 2018 model.

Below is a link to a spreadsheet showing all relevent parameters we can see have changed in Axe Edit over these three firmwares. This may help anyone struggling with the Cynus models to get closer to Ares model if thats what they prefer but don't want to miss out on all the good stuff as well by staying on 15. Bare in mind the settings are obviously for two totally different amp modelling algorithms. One of the main things to notice which might help is that the low cut frequency changes quite a bit between the firmwares, which a few have noticed. Why? only Cliff could answer how that relates to everything he codes that we don't see in the background that isn't available in Axe Edit.

BE100 Parameters Link

One of the differences I believe some people maybe hearing and not liking in the Cygnus models is if they are using similar or the same master volume levels they used on firmware 15. Now we know and were told the Log 15 taper never changed for the model, but all the other tweaks under the hood we don't see will still effect the headroom levels differently I would assume even if the master volume is set the same. All three firmwares at the same stock settings came out at different volumes and also showed different levels on the power amp headroom meter. I always liked the master volume set at stock 4.0 the best in Ares on this model, so using the headroom meter, to get a steady reading I ran a sine wave from the synth block into the amp and checked where that would send the headroom meter and took a note. It lands on -2.1 dB in firmware 15.01. Do the same on 16 Beta 4 same stock settings and it lands on -7.8 dB and on 16 Beta 11 and it arives at -1.2 dB. So obvious changes to the model during the beta phase are effecting this. I matched the headroom level I was getting in 15 at 4.0 on the master to firmware 16 Beta 4 and Beta 11 and had to set the master volume to different levels on both, 5.7 on beta 4 and 3.75 on beta 11. Again quite a difference. So maybe master volume as has been mentioned to other could be part of the issue.

I made 5 clips in total and tried to volume match then in Pro Tools the best I could.

Clip 1: Firmware 15 Stock Settings
Clip 2: Firmware 16 Beta 4 Stock Settings
Clip 3: Firmware 16 Beta 4 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15
Clip 4: Firmware 16 Beta 11 Stock Settings
Clip 5: Firmware 16 Beta 11 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15

Upon listening back to these rather than playing and listening at the same time I'm not sure in the later Cygus betas they are as fuzzy as I was thinking whilst playing, when I listened back I starting thinking the Cygnus Friedmans are actually quite fine and are sounding better to my ears today......who knows maybe there is still a little part of code/setting wrong that has snuck in there again? Maybe I've been just enjoying the Cygus Mesa Marks more and thats what I'm starting to learn more towards? The fuzz would probably be more apparent if I was running my usual gain on 8 maybe as well.

Anyway if anyone finds any of this useful and helps them out then it wasn't a waste of time. Maybe this is just a truer representation of what a real BE100 with the lowered negative feedback sounds like, I've only played the older model with the NFB off the jack, when I got my JMP 2203 modded to a BE100 circuit I had my NFB set exactly like this newer model 47k I believe off the 4 ohm tap and much prefered the more raw tone, so maybe this is the real more raw tone compared to the older model and is obviously more accurate?

If Cliff reads this maybe one last look over the BE/HBE models would put a lot of people at ease, although I'm sure he's been over this model a few times already?

Also did anyone mention if we are getting the C45 setting on the all the relevent models like before? Were they accidentaly missed off or still getting finished ready for full release?



Hahahahah, I was thinking there was something off as well, but listening to those clips, I dig Clip 4 the most! :laughing:
 
This may be a long post.............

Concerning the Friedman BE100 I'll admit I am, or should I say was one of the guys that was still thinking something is broke in these models in Cygnus. I noticed the issue in I think it was firmware 16 Beta 5 that something was off compared to Beta 4 and I was intially told it was the "power of suggestion". I made some clips posted them up and sure enough a fault was found with the model and was put right in the next beta. But ever since then I have been still feeling and thinking I'm hearing that something still isn't right, like a few others are. The BE100-V1-2018 model was my main go to amp in firmware 15.

So I went back to Firmware 15.01 setup up a preset of the old BE100 V1 2018 model, everything except the IR I used at stock settings. Nothing but an Input Block > Amp Block > Cab Block > Output Block.

I then took screen shots of every page in Axe Edit and noted every parameters setting. I then recorded a simple riff to listen back critically.

I did the same for firmware 16 Beta 4 (before the excursion fault appeared) and 16 beta 11 the latest we have where the new models were added (V3 etc). For the fimware 16 comparisons I used BE100 V1, which is the direct Cygnus replacement for the old V1 2018 model.

Below is a link to a spreadsheet showing all relevent parameters we can see have changed in Axe Edit over these three firmwares. This may help anyone struggling with the Cynus models to get closer to Ares model if thats what they prefer but don't want to miss out on all the good stuff as well by staying on 15. Bare in mind the settings are obviously for two totally different amp modelling algorithms. One of the main things to notice which might help is that the low cut frequency changes quite a bit between the firmwares, which a few have noticed. Why? only Cliff could answer how that relates to everything he codes that we don't see in the background that isn't available in Axe Edit.

BE100 Parameters Link

One of the differences I believe some people maybe hearing and not liking in the Cygnus models is if they are using similar or the same master volume levels they used on firmware 15. Now we know and were told the Log 15 taper never changed for the model, but all the other tweaks under the hood we don't see will still effect the headroom levels differently I would assume even if the master volume is set the same. All three firmwares at the same stock settings came out at different volumes and also showed different levels on the power amp headroom meter. I always liked the master volume set at stock 4.0 the best in Ares on this model, so using the headroom meter, to get a steady reading I ran a sine wave from the synth block into the amp and checked where that would send the headroom meter and took a note. It lands on -2.1 dB in firmware 15.01. Do the same on 16 Beta 4 same stock settings and it lands on -7.8 dB and on 16 Beta 11 and it arives at -1.2 dB. So obvious changes to the model during the beta phase are effecting this. I matched the headroom level I was getting in 15 at 4.0 on the master to firmware 16 Beta 4 and Beta 11 and had to set the master volume to different levels on both, 5.7 on beta 4 and 3.75 on beta 11. Again quite a difference. So maybe master volume as has been mentioned to other could be part of the issue.

I made 5 clips in total and tried to volume match then in Pro Tools the best I could.

Clip 1: Firmware 15 Stock Settings
Clip 2: Firmware 16 Beta 4 Stock Settings
Clip 3: Firmware 16 Beta 4 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15
Clip 4: Firmware 16 Beta 11 Stock Settings
Clip 5: Firmware 16 Beta 11 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15

Upon listening back to these rather than playing and listening at the same time I'm not sure in the later Cygus betas they are as fuzzy as I was thinking whilst playing, when I listened back I starting thinking the Cygnus Friedmans are actually quite fine and are sounding better to my ears today......who knows maybe there is still a little part of code/setting wrong that has snuck in there again? Maybe I've been just enjoying the Cygus Mesa Marks more and thats what I'm starting to learn more towards? The fuzz would probably be more apparent if I was running my usual gain on 8 maybe as well.

Anyway if anyone finds any of this useful and helps them out then it wasn't a waste of time. Maybe this is just a truer representation of what a real BE100 with the lowered negative feedback sounds like, I've only played the older model with the NFB off the jack, when I got my JMP 2203 modded to a BE100 circuit I had my NFB set exactly like this newer model 47k I believe off the 4 ohm tap and much prefered the more raw tone, so maybe this is the real more raw tone compared to the older model and is obviously more accurate?

If Cliff reads this maybe one last look over the BE/HBE models would put a lot of people at ease, although I'm sure he's been over this model a few times already?

Also did anyone mention if we are getting the C45 setting on the all the relevent models like before? Were they accidentaly missed off or still getting finished ready for full release?


all clips sound good
it reminds me a lot of the Loudness tone on You Shook Me , so i guess its not surprising Akira is a BE user now
 
Hi all!
I will be receiving my Axe FX III tomorrow! It will be my first Fractal product. Can't wait!
Should I install this Beta FW or wait for official version???
 
Back up your axe fx so you can roll back if you want. I would probably spend some time learning the unit first, myself.
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I kind of wondered if that might inhibit my learning. I'm new to the Ax FX but not new to "upgrading", other gear/Daw software etc. I usually stay away from new updates as there might be some hiccups. Does the Fractal stuff have many hiccups with new updates?
 
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I kind of wondered if that might inhibit my learning. I'm new to the Ax FX but not new to "upgrading", other gear/Daw software etc. I usually stay away from new updates as there might be some hiccups. Does the Fractal stuff have many hiccups with new updates?

I don't know as I'm not sure what "many" would be. Users are pretty excited about beta updates and find a few things to sort out.

My advice is always read the manual twice, try building your own presets and have fun playing.
 
As someone that doesn't have an encyclopedic technical knowledge of amps, I really wish aspects such as "modern preamp distortion amp" were compiled in the amp list wiki.

It's a description, not an actual amp. He's referring to amps that are getting their distortion from the preamp, not the power amp (how amps used to distort back in the day, by cranking the shit out of them). It's often the case that users will boost the front end of an already-distorted amp to get it to compress and tighten up the signal going into it. This is exactly why Fractal put an Input Boost on all the amps, because it's a popular thing to do.
 
It's a description, not an actual amp. He's referring to amps that are getting their distortion from the preamp, not the power amp (how amps used to distort back in the day, by cranking the shit out of them). It's often the case that users will boost the front end of an already-distorted amp to get it to compress and tighten up the signal going into it. This is exactly why Fractal put an Input Boost on all the amps, because it's a popular thing to do.
Yes. I understand that. I'm saying that adding that description to the wiki for those amps would be helpful.
 
This may be a long post.............

Concerning the Friedman BE100 I'll admit I am, or should I say was one of the guys that was still thinking something is broke in these models in Cygnus. I noticed the issue in I think it was firmware 16 Beta 5 that something was off compared to Beta 4 and I was intially told it was the "power of suggestion". I made some clips posted them up and sure enough a fault was found with the model and was put right in the next beta. But ever since then I have been still feeling and thinking I'm hearing that something still isn't right, like a few others are. The BE100-V1-2018 model was my main go to amp in firmware 15.

So I went back to Firmware 15.01 setup up a preset of the old BE100 V1 2018 model, everything except the IR I used at stock settings. Nothing but an Input Block > Amp Block > Cab Block > Output Block.

I then took screen shots of every page in Axe Edit and noted every parameters setting. I then recorded a simple riff to listen back critically.

I did the same for firmware 16 Beta 4 (before the excursion fault appeared) and 16 beta 11 the latest we have where the new models were added (V3 etc). For the fimware 16 comparisons I used BE100 V1, which is the direct Cygnus replacement for the old V1 2018 model.

Below is a link to a spreadsheet showing all relevent parameters we can see have changed in Axe Edit over these three firmwares. This may help anyone struggling with the Cynus models to get closer to Ares model if thats what they prefer but don't want to miss out on all the good stuff as well by staying on 15. Bare in mind the settings are obviously for two totally different amp modelling algorithms. One of the main things to notice which might help is that the low cut frequency changes quite a bit between the firmwares, which a few have noticed. Why? only Cliff could answer how that relates to everything he codes that we don't see in the background that isn't available in Axe Edit.

BE100 Parameters Link

One of the differences I believe some people maybe hearing and not liking in the Cygnus models is if they are using similar or the same master volume levels they used on firmware 15. Now we know and were told the Log 15 taper never changed for the model, but all the other tweaks under the hood we don't see will still effect the headroom levels differently I would assume even if the master volume is set the same. All three firmwares at the same stock settings came out at different volumes and also showed different levels on the power amp headroom meter. I always liked the master volume set at stock 4.0 the best in Ares on this model, so using the headroom meter, to get a steady reading I ran a sine wave from the synth block into the amp and checked where that would send the headroom meter and took a note. It lands on -2.1 dB in firmware 15.01. Do the same on 16 Beta 4 same stock settings and it lands on -7.8 dB and on 16 Beta 11 and it arives at -1.2 dB. So obvious changes to the model during the beta phase are effecting this. I matched the headroom level I was getting in 15 at 4.0 on the master to firmware 16 Beta 4 and Beta 11 and had to set the master volume to different levels on both, 5.7 on beta 4 and 3.75 on beta 11. Again quite a difference. So maybe master volume as has been mentioned to other could be part of the issue.

I made 5 clips in total and tried to volume match then in Pro Tools the best I could.

Clip 1: Firmware 15 Stock Settings
Clip 2: Firmware 16 Beta 4 Stock Settings
Clip 3: Firmware 16 Beta 4 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15
Clip 4: Firmware 16 Beta 11 Stock Settings
Clip 5: Firmware 16 Beta 11 with Master set to equal headroom level in 15

Upon listening back to these rather than playing and listening at the same time I'm not sure in the later Cygus betas they are as fuzzy as I was thinking whilst playing, when I listened back I starting thinking the Cygnus Friedmans are actually quite fine and are sounding better to my ears today......who knows maybe there is still a little part of code/setting wrong that has snuck in there again? Maybe I've been just enjoying the Cygus Mesa Marks more and thats what I'm starting to learn more towards? The fuzz would probably be more apparent if I was running my usual gain on 8 maybe as well.

Anyway if anyone finds any of this useful and helps them out then it wasn't a waste of time. Maybe this is just a truer representation of what a real BE100 with the lowered negative feedback sounds like, I've only played the older model with the NFB off the jack, when I got my JMP 2203 modded to a BE100 circuit I had my NFB set exactly like this newer model 47k I believe off the 4 ohm tap and much prefered the more raw tone, so maybe this is the real more raw tone compared to the older model and is obviously more accurate?

If Cliff reads this maybe one last look over the BE/HBE models would put a lot of people at ease, although I'm sure he's been over this model a few times already?

Also did anyone mention if we are getting the C45 setting on the all the relevent models like before? Were they accidentaly missed off or still getting finished ready for full release?


I find the 4th very similar to the 1st
 
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I kind of wondered if that might inhibit my learning. I'm new to the Ax FX but not new to "upgrading", other gear/Daw software etc. I usually stay away from new updates as there might be some hiccups. Does the Fractal stuff have many hiccups with new updates?
Updates can always . . . . . . . .(please fill in), but I'm FAS user since the Standard days (which is vintage now :) ) and I had not one problem with that and that's over 10 years now. I'm very carefully when updating so 1. backup (the whole unit), 2. read the notes from Cliff, 3. don't touch the unit while updating (making coffee during this time is a good thing:)), that's my rules,
maybe this helps a little bit
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom