Axe-Fx II XL & Matrix vs. 1964 AC-30

Axeman

Experienced
Blind test here. Video explains all the details. No tone matching or cab/IR block used. Just Axe-Fx II XL amp model block into Matrix GT 1000FX power amp and NL212 cab.

Please post in the YouTube comments which one you think is the Axe-Fx.

;-)

I'll be adding up the votes from the YouTube page and this thread separately to avoid double counting. I prefer all votes be left on the YouTube page.

 
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Same, I prefer the first one, seems there is more depth on the lows and the highs are less aggressive. However, both are really close ! :)
 
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Is your camera vibrating with lower notes..? Strange resonance going on, almost like cam case is ratting
unsure.gif
 
Is your camera vibrating with lower notes..? Strange resonance going on, almost like cam case is ratting
unsure.gif

Don't think so. It was on a carpet. Light was low so the pic resolution is not so great. There is some noise from the set up, but the mic is an omni directional mic so you can't tell which amp is which because based on the noise from the real Vox. Another advantage of the Axe / Matrix combo is much lower noise.
 
The first does sound fuller, but they are really close. However, I do distrust any comparison clip with a camera mic and youtube compression.

I have a AC30 with 64 specs and the Axe FX, in the room with cab block and Matrix Q12, it is very close. Keeping in mind that when I play the AC, I need to put in earplugs.
For my purposes, I'm better off with the Axe.

Jan
 
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The first does sound fuller, but they are really close. However, I do distrust any comparison clip with a camera mic and youtube compression.

I have a AC30 with 64 specs and the Axe FX, and in the room with cab block and Matrix Q12, it is very close. Keeping in mind that when I play the AC, I need to put in earplugs.
For my purposes, I'm better off with the Axe.

Jan

Good points. Clarification on the mic. I didn't use the built in camcorder mic. I used this:

Canon 2591B002 DM-100 Directional Stereo Microphone:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-2591B002-Directional-Microphone-Camcorders/dp/B0012ILNK0

It's not a high end amp mic, but much better than the built in microphone. It has a shock mount and windmuff. With regards to compression, that should obviously not bias the comparison. Nothing I can do about that.
 
Hmmm but it is a stereo recording and you can easily hear which one is left and which is right
Wish you had hit it HARDER too
 
Hmmm but it is a stereo recording and you can easily hear which one is left and which is right
Wish you had hit it HARDER too

I moved the mic each time and put it in front of each amp directly. It was not pointed in the same direction each time.
 
I would prefer Amp 1 - has got a warm Sound, very naturally. I think this the real amp.
 
The mistake I made in hindsight is that all the votes are left out in the open, so it's not a perfect study. Those that voted later may be influenced by earlier votes. Hopefully most people are stating what they think independent of other opinions.

I spent a number of hours getting the Fractal/Matrix combo to sound as close as possible to the AC-30 and I'm sure I can improve it a little more, although it's not a great return on my time (marginally decreasing convergence in tone for lots more time).

Given how close they are (as confirmed by the comments), I thought this was going to be more 50/50. I took some breaks but my ears/head were probably worn out and I probably thought they were closer than they really were. I appreciate everyone taking the time to watch the video and vote.

I'll total all the votes later this week. So please vote on the YouTube page soon if you haven't already.
 
First, thank you to everyone for taking the time to watch my video and provide comments. I'm so glad I did this test.

I have counted the votes on the YouTube video page as of an hour ago. A total of 26 people confidently or hesitantly chose which amp was the real AC-30.

There were a total of 26 votes as of an hour or two ago. 20 said the 1st amp was the Vox and 6 said the 2nd amp was the Vox. So 76.9% think that #1 is the Vox, or #1 received 3x more votes as the real Vox AC-30. Not a perfect statistical sample, but I think we can conclude most people would think #1 is the real Vox.

I know that most people can hear a difference, but I was certain that the split would come in closer to 50/50, give or take 5%. What's interesting is that #1 was often described as "softer" or "more organic", while number two was described as "sharper" or "thinner." Actually, I heard the same difference as the majority. It's just humans trying to describe EQ or physics. Amp #1 did have more mids and less treble (in more simple / direct terms). Now I know what "organic" means.

What's also clear in the comments is when people were unsure what to vote, they chose what they liked more. This is why a blind test is so important. A person's preference will align with a "real" amp because they are biased in thinking that what they like more must be more "real." If they like something better, they assume that what they like is the "real thing" or "more real." Absolutely fascinating! I'm sure there is a technical term for this bias, but I'm going to label it the "organic bias."

Drum roll please......

Well, the blind test worked. Amp #1 was the Axe-Fx II XL / Matrix GT 1000FX & NL212. #2 was the original 1964 AC-30TB "Gray Panel"! This is a big win for Fractal Audio and Matrix.

No statistical sample is perfect, but based on reviewing the vote and the comments, I'm convinced of the following:

1) Digital technologies (Fractal Audio in this case) can model analog amps so well that no one can tell the difference (just as digital cameras can now take pictures as well as traditional film - if you did a blind test between two photographs you wouldn't be able to tell which was digital and which was original Kodak film);

2) All the chatter on the various gear websites are just biased opinions. A blind test is the only way to compare any two items fairly;

3) Descriptions like "organic" and "softer" just mean that there is a EQ spectrum that is preferred by most people. It does not mean that something is analog vs. digital. It just means that a majority of the people like to hear balanced mids, highs and bass. An analog device can be made to sound harsh and thin with the bass cut and treble knob. So can a digital device. It seems most people don't like too much bass or too much shrilling brightness (on a relative basis as depicted in this test). In other words, if amp #1 had sounded like #2 and I had turned the treble knob and bass cut knob on amp #2 to sound even brighter, then most people would have chosen #1 again because it was RELATIVELY more "organic" or "softer" than #2. You only have two choices, so on a relative basis it seems most people like a more balanced EQ. But both overall tonal footprints were similar.

4) The brain can play tricks on you! Don't trust you own opinion! It's inherently biased because of past experiences and other signals stored in or being received by the brain.

Everything you hear is based on math and physics. Your brain is an amazing computer based on chemical reactions and electrical stimuli. Your eardrum vibrates and three tiny bones amplify the sound waves and go to the inner ear. The vibrations pass through the inner ear called the Cochlea (which is filled with fluid). Sound waves travel through the fluid of the Cochlea and move tiny hairs that cause an electrical signal to travel down the auditory nerve to the brain, and you hear sound. It's just physics. There is no "organic" vibration. There are specific frequencies at certain amplitudes colliding and combining to create and infinite number of sounds. Various human systems (systems that generate frequencies), whether analog or digital, should be able to create these sounds. The human body has a certain performance level in it's ability to detect sound (20hz to 20k hz, etc.), and engineering has created computers with A/D and D/A conversion, amplifiers etc. that are finally converging on specs of analog devices. It should not be a surprise that an analog signal can be reproduced by digital technology.

I've posted the video below a few times on this forum. Everyone should watch it. In a nut shell, the conclusions in this blind test supports the conclusions in this video. If you disagree with the video below, then you are tossing science out the window. Guitar pickups, amplifiers, cables, etc. are just physical devices that can be modeled using math (e.g., Fourier Transforms) and physics (speaker magnet and cone).

Cliff gets this more than anyone and it's why Fractal Audio is the best guitar pre-amp processor on this incredible planet. It just took 4.54 billion years to get here. ;-)

 
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First, thank you to everyone for taking the time to watch my video and provide comments. I'm so glad I did this test.


3) Descriptions like "organic" and "softer" just mean that there is a EQ spectrum that is preferred by most people. It does not mean that something is analog vs. digital. It just means that a majority of the people like to hear balanced mids, highs and bass. An analog device can be made to sound harsh and thin with the bass cut and treble knob. So can a digital device. It seems most people don't like too much bass or too much shrilling brightness (on a relative basis as depicted in this test). In other words, if amp #1 had sounded like #2 and I had turned the treble knob and bass cut knob on amp #2 to sound even brighter, then most people would have chosen #1 again because it was RELATIVELY more "organic" or "softer" than #2. You only have two choices, so on a relative basis it seems most people like a more balanced EQ. But both overall tonal footprints were similar.

Does that mean my thoughts were correct? I stated that I liked Amp 1 more because the tone seemed to have a bit more bass and seemed to be a bit louder and that I thought that the amps sounded basically identical. Was there more bass and more volume dialed in on amp 1?
 
I've never owned a Vox, and happy that I chose the Axe II in the blind test.
I just go by what sounds best to me.
Fractal rules!
 
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